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> Bochet mead, burn honey burn!
Kevin
post Sep 7 2010, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE(BobH @ Sep 7 2010, 11:44 PM) *
I know this is the Mead Thread but thought this is appropriate to be here as this is a burnt honey experiment.

The caramelized honey sounded interesting but I didn't want to make a big amount so I am trying a little in an Old Ale.
I heated 1.5 pounds of honey in a 1/2 gallon tall stainless pot on a ceramic top stove. It was difficult regulating the heat to keep it boiling without spitting fiery hot drops. I settled on having heat on only half of the bottom. The boil then rolled up the hot side and down the cooler side. I stirred and kept raising the heat watching the temperature of the Honey with an IR thermometer.
As the temperature started reaching 250 F I tested a little on foil for color. At 270 F the drops where Chocolate Malt Colored and I stopped. Let it cool to 200 F and added boiling water to make it a quart.
In a ball jar it was black. The entire process smelled great and the taffy like drops where eaten and very tasty. It does stick to your teeth instantly so keep it away from them.

That one quart jar darkened a five gallon 2 row Pale Ale to around 25 SRM.
So far I had explosive fermentation using US-04 for two days chugging out gobs of foam losing at least a few bottles of beer. Now it looks to have settled and is going to behave. I'll report back the results.

Bob



I am soooo looking forward to hearing about this!

Kevin
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BobH
post Sep 17 2010, 07:57 PM
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Old Ale Bochet test.
Today I transferred it to secondary and poured off a pint to taste.
It is quite clear and the gravity is at 1.014 as expected for an ABV of 7.5 and tastes unusually dry. The calculated IBU is 18.
The flavor is more like an Marris Otter English Mild with alcohol very present. The smell is is hard to pin down. Very fragrant and alcohol, possibly the US-04 and Kent Goldings exaggerating it right now.
I am going to secondary for a few weeks before bottling.

Not what I expected.

Bob
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Kevin
post Sep 28 2010, 02:58 PM
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It sounds like it is going to be a keeper though . . .

Kevin
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BobH
post Oct 8 2010, 07:54 PM
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Today I pulled a sample from secondary. From 9-17 to today 10-8 the gravity dropped 1 point to 1.013 and has cleared. It is still out gassing a little, even the sample for the hydrometer was holding some gasses. For the taste it has a distinct Braggot flavor that is odd for the small amount of honey used. Usually 1.5 pounds of honey in the boil would impart little to no flavor and this is more like something that was made with over 50% honey. The alcohol at 7.5 is distinct adding to that Braggot like profile. I would even say the aroma is of a Braggot that was 12-15% ABV. Going to try to bottle in the next week so it could be another month till I post any more tasting notes.

At this point the burnt honey produces the flavors of a larger amount of honey minus any honey taste if that makes any sense. A small portion of burnt honey added to a larger volume of a quality honey in a Mead would most certainly be something to try.

5.5 Gallons OG 1.071
Grain Bill
----------------
12.0 lb Briess Pale Ale Malt
2.00 lb Wheat Soft Red Malt Homemade
1.50 lb Honey Bochet Style
0.50 lb Crystal 20
0.25 lb Wheat Crystal 300 Homemade

Hop Bill
----------------
1.0 oz Kent Goldings 5.3 Leaf (5.3% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes
0.6 oz Kent Goldings 5.3 Leaf (5.3% Alpha) @ 20 Minutes
0.4 oz Kent Goldings 5.3 Leaf (5.3% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes
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Kevin
post Oct 15 2010, 11:18 AM
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Great notes, It almost sounds like the burnt portion of honey lent a really firm support to the perception of malt in your wort. Sort of like enhancing the caramel and melanoidin notes maybe? All in all it sounds really good. I like the idea of "going bochet" on a small portion of honey and then adding it back in to a larger portion of honey for a traditional mead. It seems like you would get a nice deep character. i think I'll give that a try as a matter of fact, giving credit where credit is due.

I appreciate your notes and look forward to the next installment!

Kevin
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MFalenski
post Nov 9 2010, 09:46 PM
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I made a bochet about a year ago. The resulting mead is fantastic. It has a taste of honey and marshmallows, and caramel.
I was worried since when I made it the smell was like burning plastic! (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif) The only thing I would do next time is make a bigger batch.
I have some honey that was given to me thats OK, but nothing you'd want to make a traditional out of, I may turn that into a large
batch of bochet.


http://letsmakemead.com/MeadBlog/?p=31
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BobH
post Dec 8 2010, 05:58 PM
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Well I have not bottled yet and this is sitting in secondary. Today I pulled a pint for a taste.
It went from 1.071 to 1.010, is crystal clear and a cold 45 degrees in my garage.
There is no trace of any honey aroma or flavor. It is very much like an Imperial version of an English Mild if it was made with 100% Marris Otter. There is none in it.
Hopefully I can get it bottled next week and will get a bunch to our local Home Brewers meeting for more opinions.

My opinion would be, burnt honey alone would not make a good Mead. Blending a quality homey with it could be very interesting. The caramel flavors would add great depth and complexity to a Mead.

Bob
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Kevin
post Dec 10 2010, 10:20 AM
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I like that idea, of blending a portion of scorched honey with straight honey for complexity.
The idea of using some scorched honey for some of the fermentables in an ale sounds really good as well to give it an off-kilter appeal also.
Thanks for posting your notes, well done!

Kevin
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BobH
post Dec 25 2010, 01:17 PM
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I bottled my Old Ale Bochet on Dec., 21st at a low carbonation level of 1.5 volumes. At bottling the FG was unchanged from 1.010 and the out gassing had stopped.
I get a different impression now than just a few weeks ago, I can smell and taste the caramelized honey. I love smelling it because it's not a familiar aroma. It's new to your nose if that makes any sense. The same aroma and flavor as when I made it and was testing hardened drops of it.

Bob
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DavidS
post Dec 26 2010, 08:59 AM
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Kevin,

I think we may be onto something here. BobH's post made me think of using a candy thermometer to measure the temperature. I am going to try a caramelized honey braggot when it stops snowing!!!. I would like some pointers form you, especially in yeast selection. I have a gallon (~11lbs) local late summer honey from a friend. I have plenty of pils / belgian pale malt.

Which yeast? I have D47, 71B, WLP002, s-04 on hand but LHBS is only 20min away.

Here is may thoughts on a recipe (5 gallons):

3 lbs Belgian pale ale malt
3 lbs pilsner malt
1 lb crystal 20
1 lb light munich

2 oz Amarillo (FWH)
1 oz Amarillo (0 min)

6 lbs local honey
3 lbs local honey - caramelized to hard ball stage ~250F

David
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Kevin
post Dec 26 2010, 09:55 PM
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The s-04 or the d-47 seem like naturals to me but the 71b is one that Jim and Jen like.
I net the combo of caramelized honey and munich will make for one heck of a nice flavor . . .
My muth is already watering for it.

The amarillo should be a nice citrus offset as well to balance it as well!

Kevin
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DavidS
post Dec 27 2010, 09:40 AM
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I leaning the D47 route but am interested in the 71B. Decisions decisions. It has worked for me on my two other meads. Should I add the honey at the end of the boil as I am starting to cool or add it in the fermenter? I guess I don't need the staggered nutrient additions with a braggot.

I wish it would get above freezing so I can get to my burner!!!
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Kevin
post Dec 27 2010, 09:25 PM
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I'd go end of the boil just because you will be sure to get it mixed in well .
SNA is probably not needed because you will get plenty of stuff from the actual malt load, man that is sounding so good!

Kevin
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Dave F
post Aug 15 2011, 08:24 PM
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I wanted to add to this thread today as I've just finished wrapping up my first bochet mead! There's some things that I've discovered, which I think I've seen hinted at on other pages/sources, but I think they bear repeating (read: big safety issues!):

1) when honey boils, the apparent volume increases DRAMATICALLY! 18 lbs of honey is a couple inches in the bottom of my kettle...once boil hit, the level of "liquid" is at *least* 4 to 5 times higher! Bottom line: you need a MUCH bigger kettle than you might think...

2) the boil requires constant attention to fiddle with the heat level, and needs to be stirred almost constantly to prevent even further rises in the boil and subsequent boil over.

3) Boiling honey is damn f*&King hot! And it likes to splash up and out with the bigger bubbles...my ring and pinky fingers will tell you that you would be well served to wear some sort of protective glove, or probably even better, a *really* long spoon.

4) When you add the water at the end of the boiling, DO NOT add it quickly. I mean this...literally add it like an ounce or so at a time. When water hits hot honey, it boils instantly and sprays damn f*&King hot boiling honey everywhere.

5) Do this outside, but be prepared to battle the bees, wasps and other assorted insect fiends...it would help to have a partner just to shoo/swat them away.

All in all though, my brew was very successful, and I'm really excited at how this will turn out. It smells awesome, is a beautiful shade of mahogany brown, and the hydrometer sample tastes like drinking a perfectly roasted marshmallow....

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plenertz
post Sep 18 2012, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE(Pseudolus @ Oct 30 2008, 11:50 AM) *
In the latest Zymurgy, Charlie P has an article about drinking seriously old meads. That's not what I'm here to ask about. But one of the meads they tried was labled "bochet", which he decides means that the honey was burnt, or scorched, before it was allowed to ferment. He provides a recipe for "Bochet Mead" where he says to put the undiluted honey - all of it - in a pot and boil that by itself for a bit until the color darkens and it starts to taste caramelized. After that the recipe continues like a usual mead.

Has anyone here tried something like this before? It sounds kinda interesting. I'm thinking about doing a mini-batch like this just for kicks. Maybe I'll just "burn" a portion of the honey? I'm guessing that, besides flavor changes, this will make the honey somewhat less fermentable?

Thoughts? Comments?

PS - How to pronounce? bo-SHAY? BO-chette?



The apiarist that I get my honey from asked me if I wanted to try a product like this. He said that they take the combs leftover and heat them up to separate the honey from the wax. In the process the honey darkens (this was black). The honey he gave me had notes of toffee, and molasses. I made a 5 gallon batch using just the blackened honey and lavin-1118 yeast (I like it dry). The result was quite interesting. I bottled after about a year and it tasted bitter. I let it age for another year and it was smooth and delicious. I'm not sure if I would use the exact recipe again but it was definitely a learning experience. Next time I might use less alcohol resistant yeast and maybe add some chocolate or berries to it.
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