Trouble some beer, So excited..then so let down Options

[MrKyle]

I recently (about...1 1/2 months ago?) put this recipe together from KenLenard's Memory Lapse Pale Ale with a few more hop additions and was so damn excited only to get a crappy beer. Can someone maybe point out where I went wrong? Here's what I did:

6 lbs Pale LME
1 lb Crystal 60L
3/4 Flaked Wheat
.5 oz Mt Hood 5.3% whole hops (60)
.5 oz Cascade 6% whole hops (60)
.5 oz Cascade 6% whole hops (20)
.5 oz Cascade 6% whole hops (5)
Pitched smack pack of 1056 at 72F

I completely blew off taking a OG which I'm still pissed off about, but fermentation was fine. I left it in the primary for 33 days. The fermentation temperature bumped up and down a little bit, but being it was the beginning of fall it never went over 70... I checked the FG at 33 days and it was at 1.013 so I bottled with 3/4 cup corn sugar and aged for about 2 weeks.

The beer came out tasting ridiculously sweet (kinda extract sweet) with an almost tangy sourness at the end. I'm led to think that the slight sourness at the back is an infection? It's very subtle though, and I'm generally very good about sanitation. The sweetness on the other hand, I don't know about. I have 31 IBUs to what was supposed to be a 1.045 beer. There's what seems to be no hint of hops either. I'm just baffled. The reason I did this beer is that it looked (and was proven by others to be) simply delicious... any advise?

[Hokie Brewer]

I recently (about...1 1/2 months ago?) put this recipe together from KenLenard's Memory Lapse Pale Ale with a few more hop additions and was so damn excited only to get a crappy beer. Can someone maybe point out where I went wrong? Here's what I did:

6 lbs Pale LME
1 lb Crystal 60L
3/4 Flaked Wheat
.5 oz Mt Hood 5.3% whole hops (60)
.5 oz Cascade 6% whole hops (60)
.5 oz Cascade 6% whole hops (20)
.5 oz Cascade 6% whole hops (5)
Pitched smack pack of 1056 at 72F

I completely blew off taking a OG which I'm still pissed off about, but fermentation was fine. I left it in the primary for 33 days. The fermentation temperature bumped up and down a little bit, but being it was the beginning of fall it never went over 70... I checked the FG at 33 days and it was at 1.013 so I bottled with 3/4 cup corn sugar and aged for about 2 weeks.

The beer came out tasting ridiculously sweet (kinda extract sweet) with an almost tangy sourness at the end. I'm led to think that the slight sourness at the back is an infection? It's very subtle though, and I'm generally very good about sanitation. The sweetness on the other hand, I don't know about. I have 31 IBUs to what was supposed to be a 1.045 beer. There's what seems to be no hint of hops either. I'm just baffled. The reason I did this beer is that it looked (and was proven by others to be) simply delicious... any advise?

An entire pound of crystal seems like a lot, and if you're not mashing it 3/4lb of flaked wheat seems like a lot.

Also, maybe you had stale extract?

[greatfookin]

Beersmith puts it @ 1.044 OG LOW for style
IBU's @ 30.4-- Mid range for style
1 lb crystal 60 - 16% of malt total, that right there would do it for a beer with 4.0 % alc.

[MrKyle]

So cut back on the crystal? Maybe 10 oz? or less? and also, the beer came out nearly flat with no head.

[SWL]

If your saying its not carbonated then there's a good chance your bottling sugar hasn't fermented out, which will give your sweetness. Two weeks is a little early especially if its stored cool. Move the bottles to a warm place -- 70 to 75f and invert and swirl to get the yeast in suspension. In another week or two you should be good to go.

[earthtone]

If it is flat and sweet then like SWL says your priming sugar hasn't fermented out. That twangy sweetness is Dextrose, kinda gross sweetener taste. The large amount of crystal probably makes a difference as well but I bet it is the desxtrose. Follow SWL's advice and wait and see..... 2 weeks really isn't long, your beer is still green wait and retry I bet it'll be great.

Also you put in flaked wheat in place of malted wheat....but flaked wheat has no enzymes for starch conversion so you would only get protein and starch from that...

[zymot]

I recently (about...1 1/2 months ago?) put this recipe together from KenLenard's Memory Lapse Pale Ale with a few more hop additions and was so damn excited only to get a crappy beer. Can someone maybe point out where I went wrong? Here's what I did:

6 lbs Pale LME
1 lb Crystal 60L
3/4 Flaked Wheat
.5 oz Mt Hood 5.3% whole hops (60)
.5 oz Cascade 6% whole hops (60)
.5 oz Cascade 6% whole hops (20)
.5 oz Cascade 6% whole hops (5)
Pitched smack pack of 1056 at 72F

I completely blew off taking a OG which I'm still pissed off about, but fermentation was fine. I left it in the primary for 33 days. The fermentation temperature bumped up and down a little bit, but being it was the beginning of fall it never went over 70... I checked the FG at 33 days and it was at 1.013 so I bottled with 3/4 cup corn sugar and aged for about 2 weeks.

The beer came out tasting ridiculously sweet (kinda extract sweet) with an almost tangy sourness at the end. I'm led to think that the slight sourness at the back is an infection? It's very subtle though, and I'm generally very good about sanitation. The sweetness on the other hand, I don't know about. I have 31 IBUs to what was supposed to be a 1.045 beer. There's what seems to be no hint of hops either. I'm just baffled. The reason I did this beer is that it looked (and was proven by others to be) simply delicious... any advise?

You steeped the flaked wheat without any base grain to convert?

That might be a mistake. As I understand it, flaked grains are gelatinized, but the starches are not converted.

At 1.013, there is not enough sugar in 6 lbs of LME to make a beer that is too sweet. (in 5 gallons you should be in the 1.038 - 1.042 OG range) 1 lb of 60L I would not expect to account for the too sweet either.

3/4 cup of corn sugar in 5 gallons is not enough to taste, so your extra sweetness isn't coming from that.

The thing(s) left for me to suspect is the 1.013 FG number or you started with more than 6 lbs of LME. What brand of LME did you use? Some brands ferment better than others. LLagemand (sp?) is notorious for finishing high and sweet.

Also aging and full carbonation will help beer. In your case, 6 weeks in the bottle at ~70° before you can declare your beer a failure.

zymot

[rundausaurus]

Also aging and full carbonation will help beer. In your case, 6 weeks in the bottle at ~70° before you can declare your beer a failure.

zymot

Everyone has given some great ideas on this one.I would like to add that AFTER you get your beer carbonated it will take on a different character when it has been refrigerated for at least 2 weeks.All my beers mellow and seem to blend the flavors when cooled for awhile,sometimes drastically.Give it a little time.2 more weeks at a warm temp. then check for carb. and then 2weeks in the fridge.I'm sure it will turn out good. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)

[dagomike]

If your saying its not carbonated then there's a good chance your bottling sugar hasn't fermented out, which will give your sweetness.

Yup. 1.013 is a typical FG and I doubt you would really taste sweetness from there. The lb of crystal is fine if that's what you want in the recipe. Warm the bottled up to 70 or so for a couple weeks and try again.

Also, that flaked wheat need to be mashed, but I doubt that's your sweetness problem.

[slothrob]

Also, that flaked wheat need to be mashed, but I doubt that's your sweetness problem.

The unconverted starch is a potential food for contamination, though, and possibly the source of your sourness.

[Piantini]

The unconverted starch is a potential food for contamination, though, and possibly the source of your sourness.

+1 on that. I am wondering why did you end up using flake wheat in your extract recipe instead of Wheat Malt?. Did you actually see a recipe like this somewhere or did it originated from a grain recipe?. In that case when converting from grain to extract will lower your special grains a little bit since you are dealing with extract. I am just wondering if this is what happened because it seems extrange that a recipe will call for flake wheat without mashing and still get great reviews. Also 1# of crystal malt and 3/4" of wheat is about 30% of the recipe, a little too much.

Also you got to remember that crystal malt leave a sweet taste to beer. Did you bottle?, No head and carb on your bottles only means that you have not given it enought time to carbonate. If you have them on a cool area bring them back to room temperature for a few days to get them going.

I want to add that 33 days in primary seems a little bit too long in my book. Possible cause of sourness? I do 1 week primary (2 weeks top) then tranfer to secondary for as long as you like.

[kenlenard]

I didn't see this thread until now. First off, the wheat would ordinarily be just plain wheat, not flaked wheat. The 1 pound of crystal may seem high for some beers, but it does work in this beer. I typically use 5 to 5.5 AAUs of Mt. Hood in this beer at 60 minutes and that is usually enough bitterness to balance that amount of crystal. But there could be any number of other issues... the extract could be bad, the additional hops (and the use of less hops @ 60) could have changed the profile dramatically, the primary temp could've been higher and the pitch temp is probably a smidge high and the bottles have only been primed for 2 weeks which I would say is woefully short for bottle-conditioned beer. The 33 days in primary is long, but I doubt there was a problem there. Also, some extracts are notorious for not fermenting out... Laaglander comes to mind... it makes very sweet beer. Otherwise, tough to tell. I'd suggest that the beer is just too young at this point and some additional time in the bottle should help. Good luck.

EDIT: Not to beat a dead horse, but you could probably have 10 different brewers make the same recipe and end up with 10 different beers because there's more to making a great beer than just a recipe. Everyone uses different water, different ingredients, different processes and timelines. I don't think you've taken any wrong turns except trying to sample the beer too early. Keep us posted.

This post has been edited by kenlenard: Nov 24 2008, 02:52 PM

[chadm75]

Everyone has given some great ideas on this one.I would like to add that AFTER you get your beer carbonated it will take on a different character when it has been refrigerated for at least 2 weeks.All my beers mellow and seem to blend the flavors when cooled for awhile,sometimes drastically.Give it a little time.2 more weeks at a warm temp. then check for carb. and then 2weeks in the fridge.I'm sure it will turn out good. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)

This is so true! My first brew ever was a Cream Ale and it was pretty strong after a couple weeks of carbing and in the fridge. I put 12 bottles away for two months, then fridged them and.....MUCH BETTER! More mellow and lacking an aftertaste at the end. Patience is king in this hobby!

[MrKyle]

well, the extract is just my lhbs house extract and i've never had a problem with it. the beers are currently sitting at around 70 and have been since bottling. The 33 days in primary came from me being out of town and in the middle of a move to a new (smaller i might add (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/dry.gif) apartment) so should i swirl the remaining beers around to get the yeast in suspension?

thanks for all the advise! can't make a great beer shooting in the dark

[kenlenard]

well, the extract is just my lhbs house extract and i've never had a problem with it. the beers are currently sitting at around 70 and have been since bottling. The 33 days in primary came from me being out of town and in the middle of a move to a new (smaller i might add (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/dry.gif) apartment) so should i swirl the remaining beers around to get the yeast in suspension?

thanks for all the advise! can't make a great beer shooting in the dark

If bottles are not carbed after 2 weeks, I wouldn't lose sleep yet. If they are sitting at 70° they are plenty warm and it's just a matter of time at that point. Many brewers enjoy sampling their corn sugar-primed bottles after a week, 10 days or whatever. But I came to the conclusion that waiting for them to be completely ready was my preference and 4 weeks was my minimum for even thinking of opening one of those beers. After all, if the beer still tastes green and the flavor is not really good, you have just wasted one of your bottles of beer. In many cases, I would wait 4-6 weeks before opening them. That may seem long but that's probably what ultimately pushed me to kegging... no waiting for bottles to prime and no green beer taste. As far as the beer itself, you have made a hoppier version of MLPA and my guess is that it will come out exactly as you intended unless something bad happened. I put some of my tips for making good beer on my site (under GENERAL BREWING INFORMATION) and they include making starters or using the right amount of yeast, pitching into wort that is at or below the temp you want to ferment at, keeping primary temps cool and consistent and being patient. Hopefully you'll have good news to report on a couple of weeks. Cheers.