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> Chat Transcripts - guest Charlie Papazian, Father of American Homebrewing
kroyster
post Feb 9 2004, 08:25 AM
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[quote]This Sunday's Chat will feature guest Charlie Papazian. To most of you Mr. Papazian needs no introduction. He's considered to be the Father of American Homerewing. He's the author of "The Complete Joy of Homerewing". First published in 1984, it is now in its newly released third edition. His other works include "Home Brewer's Gold" and "The Homebrewer's Companion". Mr. Papazian is the founder and president of the American Homebrewer's Association and the Association of Brewers.[/quote]

2/8 20:05:05 cj_in_j Ah, the guest of honor arrives!
2/8 20:05:08 Triple_Freak Look at all these people here.
2/8 20:05:16 GHawk what is your time cj_in_j ?
2/8 20:05:16 DuncanDad Welcome Charlie
2/8 20:05:25 cj_in_j 10 AM Monday.
2/8 20:05:25 ahunt Evening, Charlie
2/8 20:05:29 brian I wonder which one's Charlie....
2/8 20:05:30 Triple_Freak Welcome Charlie
2/8 20:05:32 bigslowrock I'll have to wait to decide DD
2/8 20:05:36 cj_in_j Morning, Charlie.
2/8 20:05:42 GHawk ha
2/8 20:05:46 Kent Cheers
2/8 20:05:46 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Howdy all
2/8 20:05:54 ale Brewers, Charlie may be having troublr logging on. Please be patient
2/8 20:05:54 DuncanDad Just put your name on the list. I'd love to meet you all.
2/8 20:06:01 bigslowrock He's here ale
2/8 20:06:09 Kent Hi Mark
2/8 20:06:19 cj_in_j Boy, Charlie, next time don't choose such a difficult screen name!
2/8 20:06:24 cj_in_j (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif)
2/8 20:06:25 HD4Mark Hey Kent
2/8 20:06:29 DuncanDad Hey Kent, I didn't mean to blow you off while ago
2/8 20:06:30 ale DOH!
2/8 20:06:46 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I'm new at this chat room stuff...
2/8 20:06:49 GHawk Hey HD4Mark
2/8 20:06:53 Aeneas guess I should go gety a bigfoot for this one!
2/8 20:07:01 cj_in_j We'll get you through, no worries.
2/8 20:07:02 Kent Thats okay
2/8 20:07:05 ale Okay, brewers, the Chat's begun!!!
2/8 20:07:12 HD4Mark GHawk whats up
2/8 20:07:12 Triple_Freak ?
2/8 20:07:17 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Brewed 5.5 gallons of Jabberwocky Maibock today. Tasted good into the fermenter!
2/8 20:07:22 ale Go Freak
2/8 20:07:28 JDonovan Welcome to the chat Charlie. Thanks for taking the time!
2/8 20:07:28 DuncanDad I was doin' a couple of different things and looked over and you were there and gone.
2/8 20:07:32 Kent ?
2/8 20:07:32 hophead ?
2/8 20:07:37 Triple_Freak Do you still brew Charlie? What's your favorite yeast?
2/8 20:07:39 Dave_in_Indiana ?
2/8 20:07:56 GHawk ale has the floor
2/8 20:08:40 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I brew about 15-20 times a year. Right now I'm increasing my stash planning for the warm weather beer drinking
2/8 20:08:41 twocents I had too many beers, I can't get off it.
2/8 20:09:46 Charlie_Relax_Papazian whazzup? you guys just looking at the screen drinnking beer?
2/8 20:10:05 Blizzbrews I was wondering the same thing!
2/8 20:10:13 GHawk Waiting for the Q & A
2/8 20:10:15 DuncanDad Charlie, where are you based out from, where do you call home?
2/8 20:10:19 Blizzbrews But i AM DRINKING BEER
2/8 20:10:23 GHawk Ale must take the questions
2/8 20:10:25 Jimvy Yes, that's the way Sunday nights work
2/8 20:10:26 HD4Mark ?
2/8 20:10:28 New_Brewer Take charge Ale
2/8 20:10:40 GHawk ALE ...............
2/8 20:10:45 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I'm living here in Boulder County, Colorado...end
2/8 20:10:55 IrishJny I think Ale may be having some computer problems.......
2/8 20:11:01 ahunt OK go kent....
2/8 20:11:04 Kent Following supposed protocol.Who was your inspriration into the world of homebrewing?, mine was Fred Eckhardt and his Treatise on Lager Beers
2/8 20:11:05 GHawk I'm in jacksonville, Florida
2/8 20:11:05 ale Go Kent
2/8 20:11:20 Kent gone
2/8 20:11:27 Triple_Freak ?
2/8 20:11:55 Aeneas ?
2/8 20:11:55 Charlie_Relax_Papazian My inspiration was a Day Care Center owner named George Conner, who invited me to taste homebrew at his neighbors house
2/8 20:12:06 Charlie_Relax_Papazian That was in Charlottesville, VA in 1970
2/8 20:12:10 Kent Cool
2/8 20:12:29 Charlie_Relax_Papazian The beer was a recipe from the old Premier Blue Ribbon malt days
2/8 20:12:49 bigslowrock ?
2/8 20:12:51 Kent Yes my first was of Blue ribbon
2/8 20:12:53 Charlie_Relax_Papazian 1 can of malt, 8 pounds of sugar, yeast, water, ferment ,bottle was allthe recipe told me...end
2/8 20:13:13 Kent And it was awful
2/8 20:13:29 Kent But inspiring
2/8 20:13:30 Charlie_Relax_Papazian No it mine was actually inspirational enough to get me going
2/8 20:13:40 ale Go Hophead
2/8 20:13:42 hophead Charlie, "The Complete Joy of Home Brewing" is the original homebrewers Bible for most of us. I still cringe when I see someone refer to it as a great book "for its time" How do you feel about how its stood the "test of time" Thanks for coming!
2/8 20:14:03 Charlie_Relax_Papazian You gotta understand I was drinking 69 cent a six pack ballantine ale as a student and beer wasn't very inspriational in taste... but the homebrew WAS...end
2/8 20:14:57 ale Go Dave In Indiana
2/8 20:14:59 Dave_in_Indiana With regard to mead (1) are you in the boil or no-boil camp? and, (2) Have you made any changes to the Barkshack recipe since the 1st book?
2/8 20:15:11 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Well I figure the time is now, so it seems I get LOTS of people still using it as their first book and inspired to brew on and on...end
2/8 20:15:44 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I'm in themiddle camp. I usually just bring it to a boil
2/8 20:16:07 Charlie_Relax_Papazian then I skim and ferment but I'm inclined to not boil the next time after being inspired by meads I've tasted
2/8 20:16:48 Kevin ?
2/8 20:16:50 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Barkshack... man that's good stuff. though I haven't made it in a long time... but I've recently tasted some made by others and it is even better than before
2/8 20:17:14 Dave_in_Indiana Thanks, Charlie
2/8 20:17:25 Charlie_Relax_Papazian using better yeast...What is the "first" version ofbarkshack you refer to? it's changed a lot since 1975
2/8 20:17:40 Dave_in_Indiana From the first book
2/8 20:18:08 Charlie_Relax_Papazian My first book I self publishedin 1976. It was about 70 pages. I don't think you are referring to that.
2/8 20:18:39 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I think it is the 1984 version you mention. yes iI believe I've changed things. My new version just came out last September and was a complete overahaul
2/8 20:18:44 Charlie_Relax_Papazian of all the recipes...end
2/8 20:19:14 Charlie_Relax_Papazian 'scuse the typos... i'm typing pretty fast to keep up with you folks...end
2/8 20:19:21 ale Brewers, please slow down a bit. Submit followup questions witha "??"
2/8 20:19:45 ale Go, Dave_in_Indiana
2/8 20:19:56 Dave_in_Indiana thanks Ale, that's all I had
2/8 20:20:14 ale Go, HD4Mark
2/8 20:20:21 HD4Mark Just want to say that The new Joy.... was my bible before I had web sites etc. I still refer to it, although it is a little ragged
2/8 20:20:40 HD4Mark And thanks Charlie
2/8 20:20:41 E.Baker Hi!
2/8 20:21:07 HD4Mark Oh end
2/8 20:21:22 ale Go Aeneas
2/8 20:21:31 Aeneas What do you think of the BJCP program and to what extent does critical analysis of homebrewed beer make us better brewers?
2/8 20:21:39 hophead Hey I still use it too. Got me a new one tho
2/8 20:21:43 bigslowrock ale - I pass on my ?
2/8 20:22:24 Charlie_Relax_Papazian BJCP program has been really excellent for improving the quality of homebrewed beer over the years
2/8 20:22:57 Charlie_Relax_Papazian but as a brewer you've really got to have a lot of humility to be a judge and also to take the constructive comments from judges and learn from theme...end
2/8 20:22:59 E.Baker Anyone know if it's normal than after 12hours.. i got no sound from the Airlock.. but if i touch the top of the bucket.. the air go away from the airlock?
2/8 20:23:22 ale Go Kevin
2/8 20:23:25 Kevin Charlie, when making meads, what are some of your favorite yeast strains to use nowadays and why?
2/8 20:24:16 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Well I use my old standbys that I've been successful with. Often a combo of dried sherry yeast and dried ... shoot I forgot ... but it is a champagne yeast
2/8 20:24:44 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I usually brew mead once a year and have been doing so for a long long long time. so I have quite a stash
2/8 20:25:12 Charlie_Relax_Papazian and don't need to make mead a whole lot. most of my mead is over 5 years old and some is pushing near 20 year s old
2/8 20:25:26 Kevin WOW!
2/8 20:25:27 Charlie_Relax_Papazian But now my wife wants to make her own so here we going again
2/8 20:25:31 Charlie_Relax_Papazian ...end
2/8 20:25:50 Blizzbrews ?
2/8 20:25:54 Kevin ?
2/8 20:26:02 Charlie_Relax_Papazian p.s. I have a couple of bottles that are 56 years old from a stash in Scotland
2/8 20:26:04 Charlie_Relax_Papazian ...end
2/8 20:26:23 Kevin thanks Charlie (I got to say Charlie...cool!)
2/8 20:26:28 ale Go Blizz
2/8 20:27:05 Blizzbrews Charlie, what style or styles would you recommend brewing (AG) that'll be ready in the shortest time...possibly for a competition in May?
2/8 20:27:35 Charlie_Relax_Papazian For a competition in May you have LOTS of possibilities
2/8 20:28:00 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Most of your ales that are less than 5.5% alcohol, including porters and stouts
2/8 20:28:30 Blizzbrews what can generally be ready quickest?
2/8 20:28:38 Blizzbrews oops
2/8 20:28:41 Charlie_Relax_Papazian the only ones that tak time are the true lagers and of course complex barleywines, and big and huge Belgian styles, in general.
2/8 20:29:03 hophead Wonder why he asked that question
2/8 20:29:10 Blizzbrews Thanks Charlie, you are THE MAN...end
2/8 20:29:11 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I'm often enjoying Bitters and pale ales in three weeks time if need be.
2/8 20:29:15 Charlie_Relax_Papazian ...end
2/8 20:29:15 bigslowrock cheater
2/8 20:29:23 Blizzbrews lol @ Hop
2/8 20:29:28 Wampas-Cat calling foul lol
2/8 20:29:36 ale Go Kevin
2/8 20:29:37 Kevin What is your position on aerating/oxygenating high gravity beers multiple times after fermentation has begun and what would you consider optimal?
2/8 20:29:56 ahunt ?
2/8 20:30:22 MasterBrewer Hello all, sorry I'm late... (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/sad.gif)
2/8 20:30:31 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I don't have a ny experience with multiple aerations
2/8 20:30:41 Charlie_Relax_Papazian hah...just figured out the color stuff
2/8 20:31:14 Kevin faie enough, thank you.
2/8 20:31:17 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I aerate the best I can at the beginning and don't muck about with the brew too much after it get's going
2/8 20:31:18 Kevin er fair I mean
2/8 20:31:19 Charlie_Relax_Papazian ...end.
2/8 20:31:33 rich ?
2/8 20:31:41 ale Go A Hunt
2/8 20:31:52 ahunt Chalie. Thanks for coming tonight. What's your opinion regarding using secondaries vs. going straight to the keg after fermentation for cask conditioning when making ales?
2/8 20:32:15 Charlie_Relax_Papazian It all depends, sort of
2/8 20:32:35 Charlie_Relax_Papazian If I'm going to dry hop I will always secondary
2/8 20:32:50 Charlie_Relax_Papazian If i have a lot of trub in the primary I'll secondary
2/8 20:32:56 Charlie_Relax_Papazian If I'm lazy I don't secondary
2/8 20:33:19 Kent ?
2/8 20:33:20 Cam lol
2/8 20:33:37 Charlie_Relax_Papazian If I'm traveling or don't have time to rack, I'll leave it be. Can you tell the difference? If not then do what feels the best.
2/8 20:34:06 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I've got a situation where I ferment ales as about 68 degrees F and then "cellar" at about 55 when ferment is pretty much done. ...end
2/8 20:34:10 ale Go Kent
2/8 20:34:11 adavis ?
2/8 20:34:15 ahunt Thanks
2/8 20:34:22 Cam ?
2/8 20:34:35 Kent Aerate or Oxygenate?
2/8 20:35:26 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Aerate. I just never have gotten around to getting the equipment for oxygen...I have enough stuff in my garage so I keep to the essentials
2/8 20:35:37 Kevin ?
2/8 20:35:50 Charlie_Relax_Papazian "enough stuff in my garage?" actually never can have enough beer...end
2/8 20:36:08 cmbrougham ?
2/8 20:36:13 ale Go adavis
2/8 20:36:17 adavis There is much debate on force carbonation vs. natural carbonation, when kegging. What are your feelings?
2/8 20:36:22 Kent I just oxygenated for the first time on an Oktoberfest yesterday and it is fermanting like never before
2/8 20:36:57 Charlie_Relax_Papazian When you naturally carbonate you are going to get subtle byproducts of fermentation that are trapped into the beer. They can offer complexity and
2/8 20:37:09 Charlie_Relax_Papazian perhaps flavors you might like. Forced carbonation
2/8 20:38:02 Charlie_Relax_Papazian is pretty much pure CO2 going into the beer. It certainly works, but I like the natural way. And besides its a whole lot less work and expense and I'm happy with my beer...end
2/8 20:38:12 ahunt ?
2/8 20:38:13 adavis Thanks a lot Charlie...end
2/8 20:38:55 ale More, Charlie???
2/8 20:39:06 Charlie_Relax_Papazian keep it coming
2/8 20:39:15 hophead ?
2/8 20:39:16 ale Go Cam
2/8 20:39:17 Cam Have you ever used the fermentation control liquid? I just tried it and was really impressed. I usually have a lot of blowoff and was thinking that the fermentation control liquid woud help keep more yeast in the beer to get a more comple fermentation.
2/8 20:39:26 Cam What do you think?
2/8 20:39:52 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Man, I guess I can't keep up with all that's out there. What is fermentation control liquid???...end
2/8 20:40:05 Cam It limits the size of the fermentation head
2/8 20:40:17 invalid whaa?
2/8 20:40:24 Cam I'm wondering if I use this on big beers if they will finish better
2/8 20:40:35 Cam By keeping more yeast in the beer vice blowing out the top
2/8 20:40:47 Kent The student has become the teacher!
2/8 20:40:51 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Ohhh. Why would you want to do that? Well i can imagine. But what is the stuff? Does it effect head retention in the final brew?...end
2/8 20:41:02 Cam Not suppose to
2/8 20:41:09 Cam I'll find out soon lol
2/8 20:41:26 ale Go Kevin
2/8 20:41:30 Kevin I've noticed an awful lot of overlap in styles for aha/bjcp categories. An excellent example is bjcp Pale ale/IPA/amber ale where one well thought out beer meets the guidelines for all three. How do you feel about that?
2/8 20:41:48 MasterBrewer Website with more info??? Sorry for talking out of turn...
2/8 20:42:01 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Well I've never ever ever heard of a pro brewer using something like this and my philosophy is if they aren't using it I'm skeptical...end
2/8 20:42:02 Triple_Freak ?
2/8 20:42:40 Charlie_Relax_Papazian About overlap
2/8 20:42:45 jjocsak ?
2/8 20:43:05 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Yes some of the styles come pretty darn close to infringing on others
2/8 20:43:39 jjocsak DO you think oxygen barrier or oxygen absorbing caps are of any use to us home brewers?
2/8 20:43:44 Charlie_Relax_Papazian At the Association of Brewers you can view our guidelines on the education page at www.beertown.org
2/8 20:43:49 ale Go CMB
2/8 20:43:53 cmbrougham If you only had a choice of these two, which would you take: an excessively hoppy beer, or an excessively malty beer? And why?
2/8 20:44:02 Charlie_Relax_Papazian they've been recently updated. They get updated and revised every year and
2/8 20:44:09 jjocsak sorry
2/8 20:44:16 Kevin Thanks Charlie, end
2/8 20:44:50 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I don't think there is any technical overlapping, though the taste impressions may very well overlap, but the specs are usually quite distinctive...end
2/8 20:46:22 New_Brewer Ale........
2/8 20:46:30 GHawk daed air
2/8 20:46:32 GHawk dead
2/8 20:46:39 HD4Mark ?
2/8 20:46:58 jjocsak ?
2/8 20:47:14 cmbrougham Hmmm... was my question that bad?
2/8 20:47:21 ale Slow down, breweres. Charlie's answering CMB's question
2/8 20:47:22 GHawk het tex
2/8 20:47:27 cmbrougham cool
2/8 20:47:48 Charlie_Relax_Papazian whoops didn't see the question
2/8 20:47:54 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I'd mix the two... end
2/8 20:47:56 Oldfart ?Any thoughts on fly VS. batch sparging?
2/8 20:48:05 cmbrougham hehe... Thanks Charlie... for the answer and getting me into this crazy hobby! ....end
2/8 20:48:29 invalid ?
2/8 20:48:30 Charlie_Relax_Papazian okay. What's fly sparging?
2/8 20:49:12 Triple_Freak ?
2/8 20:49:38 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Is "fly" sparging "on the fly sparging?
2/8 20:49:43 ale Go CMB
2/8 20:49:55 Cam Fly is continuous
2/8 20:50:25 substation When dry hopping is it best to bag or just add the hops to the brew?
2/8 20:50:41 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I still don't quite understand. I have a batch of mash in the lauter tun and I begin sparging as soon as the level is just above the grains. Is this batch or fly?...end
2/8 20:51:10 HD4Mark Fly
2/8 20:51:43 ale Go CMB
2/8 20:51:43 Charlie_Relax_Papazian The less you can introduce into your brew the better is my philsophy. So I don't use a bag. I like to use pellets in the secondary. They eventually go to the bottom as sediment and
2/8 20:51:56 bigslowrock Fly - continous, Batch - fill up, mash, dump - fillup again dump
2/8 20:52:09 Charlie_Relax_Papazian offer excellent results. My favorite dry hop is Crystal hop (pellets) ....end
2/8 20:52:14 cmbrougham that was my question, ale... thanks
2/8 20:52:30 ale Go ahunt
2/8 20:52:39 ahunt I'm sure you like all of the recipes in your book, The Complete Joy (3rd edition), but what's your favorite recipe???
2/8 20:53:31 Charlie_Relax_Papazian bislworick: i think you guys are talking about batch sizes that are bigger than I brew. My max all grain size is usually 6 gallons. My max malt extract size is abotu 12 gallons...end
2/8 20:53:58 ale Go TripleFreak
2/8 20:54:00 Triple_Freak I'm looking for a new copy of Brewing Mead: Wassail! In Mazers of Mead...any ideas on where I can find one? I already have the Compleat Meadmaker, but I collect brewing books, and I'd like a copy of this one as well. I've also tried Amazon.com, no luck.
2/8 20:54:11 twocents http://www.abebooks.com
2/8 20:54:12 bigslowrock Batch sparging is a way to save time, but you lose the efficieny. You can do it for 6 gallon batches.
2/8 20:54:14 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Ihave lots of favorites. Most of the newly added ones in the new 3rd Edition of The Complete Joy of Homebrewing are definitely favorites I brew a lot
2/8 20:54:16 Triple_Freak Thanks for your answers...end
2/8 20:54:24 TexanBrewer ?
2/8 20:54:29 Charlie_Relax_Papazian ... end
2/8 20:55:06 Charlie_Relax_Papazian Brewing MEad Wassail is out of print. Amazon has them for a painful $40 or more used...end
2/8 20:56:09 ale Go JJocsak
2/8 20:56:09 twocents sorry, abe doesn't have a copy
2/8 20:56:16 jjocsak Do you think oxygen barrier or oxygen absorbing caps are any benefit to us home brewers? Do they really work?
2/8 20:56:35 Charlie_Relax_Papazian I'm afraid i won't be able to answer the question about fly versus batch sparging, since I'm not familiar with these terms anddon't quite understand...end
2/8 20:56:52 jeffdj ?
2/8 20:57:06 [color=lime]MasterBrewer
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