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> Chat Transcripts - Guest Mike Scanzello, Maltster for Cargill Malts
post Mar 29 2004, 04:04 PM
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Group: banned
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Joined: 16-March 02
From: Mooresville, NC
Member No.: 201

Mike has been involved in the brewing industry since 1995 when he went to work for Stroh's. He left in 2001 to persue a career with Cargill in Jefferson WI. Mike will answer any and all questions concerning Malt and the Malting Process.

ale Our guest has just joined. Hello Mike.
rob3640 i have 0 questions..i guess i need to think of some
rob3640 heh
rob3640 hello there Mike
Mike_the_maltster How's it going
ale The official Chat starts in abouy 11 minutes.
ale about 11 minutes.
Mike_the_maltster I sure hope to be able to answer your questions tonight
rob3640 dont worry mike...if I have any they arent going to be complicated
Mike_the_maltster Sounds good
Mike_the_maltster we will have fun antway
ale Mike is a Maltster for Cargill. Please hold off the questions until 8:00 to avoid repetition.
ale In the mean time, feel free to shoot the breeze.
ale For the record, Mike, depending on who chimes in tonight, You may have some tough questions.
Mike_the_maltster Well I'll see how I do
MtnBrewer 'sup all?
rob3640 not too much
cj_in_j Hi everyone. Just finished transferring and dry hopping my Bastard clone! Now I'm doing the steam. Busy day -- that's what I get for catching cold.
Mike_the_maltster I think my biggest concern is fielding questions about all the specialty malt. I do know alittle about them but not much practice making them
MtnBrewer Well there goes my question then...(IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)
Xipper I'm sure you know more than most of us
MtnBrewer I've got the slowest sparge in the history of brewing going right now
rob3640 im still an extract brewer so im just here to learn stuff for when I do go ag
RedVR6 Hi everyone...My irst HBA chat..so I will likely be sitting back and "listening".
cj_in_j Mike -- Not to show my ignorance (as he shows his ignorance), but where are you located right now?
MtnBrewer It's about *this* far from being stuck right now
rob3640 my first chat as well
cj_in_j Mtn -- Bummer. Hope it works out. Did you try raking the top of the grain bed?
Mike_the_maltster I'm in Lake Mills WI at home
MtnBrewer yep
MtnBrewer prolly should do it again
MtnBrewer hey hop, hey borny
borny Hey, everyone!
hophead hey MB
rob3640 hey borny
rob3640 hey hop
hophead Hey everybody
cj_in_j Hey borny, congrats again!
MtnBrewer yeah really...pretty cool
cj_in_j 2nd place ain't too shabby -- for a rookie. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif)
borny cj_in_j hey, congrats what?
cj_in_j Didn't you win a ribbon this past weekend?
hophead He's stunned
cj_in_j hop -- I guess so! Maybe he didn't know!!!
cj_in_j Hi rich!
ale My clock now shows 8:00, the Chat has started. Please use the '?' protocol for Mike.
rich hello all!
ale ?
cj_in_j go ale
MtnBrewer ?
ale Mike, first, tell us a bit about the different varieties of barley...
ale ...why they're used...
ale ...and why single strain 2 row is becoming rare.
ale end
Mike_the_maltster Well, first you have 2-row vs 6-row which is determined by how many kernals are on the stem, but the majority you guys are using are probably 2-row varieties...end
ale Follow up..
ale Why no longer Klages or Harrington?
Mike_the_maltster 2-row varities include Harrington, Metcalfe, etc.
ale Why the blend?
Mike_the_maltster Klages too. 2 row, tend to be plumper equating in higher extract, but some don't have the enzyme levels that 6-rows do...end
ale Go MtnBrewer
MtnBrewer I know you said you're not up on all the specialty malts but can you explain the diff between crystal & caramel malt, if any?
hophead ?
Mike_the_maltster Specialty malts differ by how they are processed. Your caramel malts are taken right from the germination stage to a roaster, making a darker colored malt. While the crystal is kilned at higher temps to acheive a higher color, but not as high as the caram
MtnBrewer thx mike
ale Mike, ready for the next?
Mike_the_maltster Your black and chocalate malts kilned then roasted
Mike_the_maltster ready, fire away
ale Go HopHead
hophead Can you tell me if Wiessheimer pils is fully modified? Will a single infusion mash do?
Mike_the_maltster I'm not exactly sure how to answer that, but let me see if I could shed some light
ale Good question, and something that should be discussed tonight.
BryanH ?
Mike_the_maltster All malt is modified during the germination step which lasts about 4-5 days, but if it is them kilned at very high temps or roasted it loses its enzymatic activity. I believe a Pils malt is used as you base malt, but not sure of the single infusion though.
cj_in_j ?
Mike_the_maltster Not sure if that helps you...end
ale Go BryanH
BryanH A follow up question to hophead's: In terms of single temp mashes is there a relation to the overall nitrogen content of the malt as well as the degree of modificatin?
hophead Thanks
Mike_the_maltster Yes, the more modified the malt the more protein is solubilized increase what is called Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN) which is important for yeast viability
Mike_the_maltster There is a fine line with modification though because too much can produce off flavors...end
ale Go CJ
cj_in_j Mike, I have to admit I'm in love with Maris Otter pale malt. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif) What product of yours compares?
Mike_the_maltster I would see if you can get your hands on a malt we call IdaPils, I'm not sure of others that are out there because I don't deal with Specialty too much
Mike_the_maltster Sorry..end
cj_in_j A kind of follow-up, if you don't mind. I'm in Japan -- do you export any of your malt to here?
ale ?
ale What's your opinion on decoction mashing?
Mike_the_maltster Yes, I know or plant in Canada deals with several of the Japenese brewers so I would imagine they are availabe...end
ale Is it necesarry at all with modern malts?
Mike_the_maltster Please explain decoction more, haven't heard that term?
ale Pulling off portions of a mash and boiling....
Thomas removing part of the mash (usually mostly grains) and boiling them to then reintroduce them to the mash to raise the temperature
ale ...this was common a few centuries ago, when undermodified malt was the norm.
Mike_the_maltster Well, it sounds like you guys to that to get a faster ramp after conversion where the commercial brewer can do it with more control, don't think it is a malt thing.
Mike_the_maltster I would imagine you would still need to do it...end
Mike_the_maltster Maybe I'm wrong though...these days we probably have better malt...end
ale ?
Thomas go ale
ale Are protien rests still necesary with modern mllts?
ale malts?
Mike_the_maltster Yes, there is little known about proteins in both mashing and malting, but in mashing if you don't allow for the protein rest, and subsequent precipitation of the those proteins you can have problems with haze...end
BryanH ?
ale Go BryanH
BryanH There is a product called Special Pale on the Cargill website, who are the customers for this malt and is it available to homebrewers?
Holly Hello! I'm with Cargill too. We have quite a few Special pale customers. You can get it from many of our distributors.. like Ale maybe.
MtnBrewer uh oh...they're tag teaming us
Mike_the_maltster We have a host of specialty customers all across the nation. I not much involved with the sales side but you could ask around at Homebrew Adventures.
Mike_the_maltster Thanks Holly..end
Spectre ?
Holly Sorry I wanted to check out the chat andf could actually answer a question
BryanH The description of the malt looked interesting, just wondered if it was distributed through homebrew channels.
Mike_the_maltster Can Ale answer that one..end
ale Go Spectre
BryanH thanks mike, holly
Spectre How important is the use of multiple malts as opposed to single malt?
Holly I think the specialties can add color & flavor that the base malts can't
Spectre ?
Mike_the_maltster Most brewers use a blend of several different varieties because some have different extract, enzyme levels, and flavor attributies so they can blend a few to meet there needs. Although if you find one that is meeting your needs well, keep using it....end
ale Go Specre, I think that Mike's still working on your last one.
Spectre What is the advantage of using single malt, or is there an advantage?
Mike_the_maltster Like holly said, the speciality malts are going to give you your color, flavour, foam retention, but you need a good base pale malt to give you your extract and enzymes...end
Mike_the_maltster You might have a problem using just one malt....end
ale ?
Thomas go ale
ale What is the big difference between your '2 row', and your 'ale malt?
ale brewer's malt?
Spectre ?
brian ?
Mike_the_maltster I'm not sure I can answer that one, Its all brewer's malt HAHA , Maybe the Ale is better for the Ale fermantation...end
ale Go Spectre
Spectre When talking whiskey, single malt is considered better. Why would that be true for whiskey but not for homebrew?
Mike_the_maltster That's an interesting question, and I'm not sure. With single malts are usually more refined and aged much longer, than blended whiskeys. Plus many blended whiskeys use other grains beside barley...end
ale Go, Brian.
brian Have you had any quality issues with Eurpoean malt this year. Last summer's drought looked pretty bad. Any effect on prices?
Mike_the_maltster AS a follow up to the distillers question, brewer's require different parameters to make a good brew where distillers are more concerned with yield in there mash because they are going \to distill it anyway.
Mike_the_maltster Our specialty group deals with the European Malt, and I also don't know pricing..sorry..end
ale Mike,
brian ? Follow-up
Mike_the_maltster Go ahead
brian Speaking just domestically, how have the last few crop years been to your supplier-farmers?
ale What is the difference between 2 row and 'Brewers Malt'?
Spectre ?
Mike_the_maltster Well 2002 was an awlful year here and in Canada. When the crop was harvested there was heavy rains and in some places snow resulting in presprout issues which made alot of barley turn into feed.
Mike_the_maltster This raised the prices due to the decreased supply of brewer grade barley
Mike_the_maltster 2003 has been a much better crop, but because alot of farmers lost their butt in 2002 not as many grew barley as in the past
Mike_the_maltster because of the risk, so the market has been better but not great..end
brian Have you heard of more barley acreage this year?
Mike_the_maltster Probably less..end
brian Thanks Mike!
ale Go Spectre
Spectre Is 6-row more efficient that 2-row when using adjacents such as instant oats or instant rice?
ted *slap*
Thomas *whip*
Mike_the_maltster Yes, and that's because 6-row varieties tend to have a higher Diastic Power or DP which allows for better conversion of the higher gravity mash you get from using adjuncts, so you won't have problems with viscous runoffs...end
Spectre Ok, thanks.
ted ahh, 6 row, love the stuff
hophead Thanks Mike. Cheers!
Spectre ?
Mike_the_maltster No problem
ale Brewers, It's after 9:00 and Mike's officially 'off the hook'
Mike_the_maltster I'll stick around for alittle if there are more questions
ted sorry I missed the chat!!
cj_in_j ted, ask a Q now! Mike's waiting!!!
ted Mike, which maltery are you from
Spectre ?
Mike_the_maltster I work at Cargill Malt's facility in Jefferson WI
ale Mike, Thank you for joining us tonight. Hope to see you back soon.
ted ahh, nice, not far from me!!
cj_in_j Well, I gotta run. Mike and Holly -- thanks for helping us out tonight! Everyone else, see you on the board.
Mike_the_maltster Anytime had fun, if people think of questions later put it out on the brew board
CurlyJake Mike, I know that diff's in enzyme affect brews. What malts should I use in mine to optimize the enzymes?
BryanH thanks for stopping in Mike
Mike_the_maltster From a homebrewers stand point a good 2-row variety like Harrington which has good extract levels and enzyme levels
Mike_the_maltster Most micos and brewpubs probably use 2-row as there base malts
lookitschris Can you explain "wet conditioning" malt before milling (to reduce husk breakage) and how to best go about it on the homebrewing level?
Mike_the_maltster I've never heard of wet conditioning. At a large brewery you want to keep all water away from the mill. Husks are important to because they make a natural filter bed when lautering. If you want to try that homebrewing lightly wet the malt and roll it wit
Mike_the_maltster a rolling pin would be my suggestion
lookitschris roll it as opposed to milling? is that to protect my mill?
Mike_the_maltster I would imagine your mill would become a sticky mess and would not run well.
lookitschris good point. thanks
CurlyJake I'm looking at malting small batches at home. How would you recommed I start?
Mike_the_maltster We have a pilot malting system at the plant, but to do it at home would be tricky. Its not like you make a batch of beer in a day. Steeping takes 2 days, germination takes 4 days, and kilning would take another 2 days. Plus for instance steeping requires
Mike_the_maltster several periods of immersions and suctions so unless you want to be up all day and night to perform them manually for would need some degree of automation. I would know where to begin to tell you.
CurlyJake That's dissapointing. I've got a couple bad batches from a maltster and thought maybe I could do it myself.
Mike_the_maltster Sorry to hear that. Awlfully tricky, but if you were serious, an engineer, and good at fabricating you good design a system.
Tito Wasssuppp?, burp, sorry
Mike_the_maltster Well I gotta run, Thanks for having me in it was fun....later
ted Later Mike
CurlyJake Thanks Mike
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