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> Overloading the flavor hops, Whatcha think?
llama
post Jan 1 2005, 03:51 PM
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I'm kicking around the idea of brewing an IPA with just a touch of bittering hops(or none at all (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wow.gif) ). Sounds insane until I add that I plan to overload the flavor and aroma additions to hit the magic 1ibu/gravity point.

What are your thoughts on the total IBU's in a beer in relation to various additions? I can't remember seeing this discussed, yet it seems so important.

Here is an example IPA:


Anti-Bitter IPA

A ProMash Recipe Report

Recipe Specifics
----------------

Batch Size (Gal): 5.50 Wort Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 13.00
Anticipated OG: 1.067 Plato: 16.29
Anticipated SRM: 9.4
Anticipated IBU: 66.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75 %
Wort Boil Time: 60 Minutes


Grain/Extract/Sugar

% Amount Name Origin Potential SRM
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
84.6 11.00 lbs. Pale Malt(2-row) Great Britain 38.00 3
7.7 1.00 lbs. Munich Malt Germany 37.00 8
7.7 1.00 lbs. Crystal 40L America 34.00 40

Potential represented as Points per pound per gallon.


Hops

Amount Name Form Alpha IBU Boil Time
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
1.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 20.6 30 min.
1.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 16.2 20 min.
1.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 13.3 15 min.
1.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 9.7 10 min.
1.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 5.3 5 min.
1.50 oz. Cascade Whole 5.75 1.2 1 min.


Yeast
-----
1056


Would this be a sweet beer??
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cj in j
post Jan 1 2005, 06:12 PM
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Just my opinion, but I think you'll need to go over the 1:1 ratio on gravity points to IBUs. The flavor and aroma additions tend to give smoother bitterness to the point where the beer might not be bitter enough to the tongue. But, it's a great experiment! (Personally, though, I'd mix another hop in there instead of using all Cascade.)
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Triple Freak
post Jan 1 2005, 06:19 PM
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Ray Daniels' book suggests up to a 1.5:1 ratio of IBU's:PPPG, IIRC. I don't think you're going to like all Cascade either, unless you like drinking Pine-Sol, that is.
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llama
post Jan 1 2005, 07:01 PM
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Sorry, I should have pointed out that the example was just to illustrate hop usage not selection. I've been wanting to try out a magnum/ahtanum mix in an IPA maybe that will be the magic combo.

This post has been edited by llama_boy: Jan 1 2005, 07:02 PM
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ericd
post Jan 1 2005, 07:28 PM
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A worthy experiment. I suspect that you will get loads of flavor, but lack adequate bitterness. That is not to say the resulting product won't be very good, just different than we might expect from a 1:1 IBU to gravity brew.

If you really want it to be an experiment, brew a double batch and split them. Brew both to the same calculated IBU's but without any true bittering additions in one batch. That ought to give you a good idea of the difference it makes.
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cj in j
post Jan 1 2005, 08:01 PM
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When I did one of my Ultimate Hop Hourglass JPAs (the one with hop additions every minute for the 60 min boil), I didn't add any bittering hops, just small additions (2 or 3 grams) every minute. The beer was calculated at 65 IBUs, but almost everyone who tried it said it wasn't bitter enough. So, if I was doing one, I'd probably go with TF's suggestion of 1.5:1.
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llama
post Jan 1 2005, 08:15 PM
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1.5 it is. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/cool.gif) Think I should start the hop additions at 30mins?

I would like to make additions ea/5mins until flame out and then dry hop. Any suggestions on hops (American IPA, think Stone)?

Wanna help build an Anti-Bitter IPA recipe?
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Triple Freak
post Jan 1 2005, 09:06 PM
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I'd add the hops starting at 60 mins for a 60 mins boil, and 90 mins for a 90 min boil, etc. You're going to need some bitterness. Unless you want to buy pre-isomerized hop extract & add it at the end.
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cj in j
post Jan 1 2005, 09:12 PM
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TF -- I'm not so sure about that. 30-minute hops will surely give bitterness, and if you add enough of them you'll get your bitterness. You might also get other flavors (grassy -- mmmmm), but as an experiment it should be very interesting. Adding hops at 90 or 60 minutes is just too normal! (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/hehe.gif)

llama -- Are you willing to do a JPA? Extract or all-grain? If so, I'll come up with a hopping schedule that will knock your socks off!!! And, I'll do that same thing -- of course we'll probably never be able to compare them side by side, but we can at least compare notes here. And if I do make it to the AHA Conference in Baltimore in June, I'll bring some with me. Hop additions starting with 30 min left in the boil, every 5 minutes, with optional dry hopping (which I'm still not a big fan of). Say the word and I'll get on it! (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/cool.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/biggrin.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/cheers.gif)
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llama
post Jan 1 2005, 09:20 PM
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CJ, write away! AG 11 gallon batch.

I've been wanting to try 1026 too so a JPA style beer should fit the bill.

Too bad I didn't thik of this a few weeks ago.. I will be in Tokyo a week from today (just passing through).
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Triple Freak
post Jan 1 2005, 09:25 PM
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Call me normal then. Muhahahaha..... (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/devil.gif)
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cj in j
post Jan 1 2005, 10:21 PM
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QUOTE(Triple Freak @ Jan 2 2005, 11:26 AM)
Call me normal then. Muhahahaha..... (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/devil.gif)
*

NORMAL! (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/hehe.gif)

QUOTE(llama_boy @ Jan 2 2005, 11:21 AM)
CJ, write away! AG 11 gallon batch.

I've been wanting to try 1026 too so a JPA style beer should fit the bill.

Too bad I didn't thik of this a few weeks ago.. I will be in Tokyo a week from today (just passing through).
*

Okay, I'll post it by tomorrow morning. Should be fun. We can set an approximate date for brewing, so they're ready at the same time -- just in case we get a chance to exchange.

Experimentation, here we come! (No Triple Freaks need apply -- they're too normal! (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/tongue.gif) )
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Triple Freak
post Jan 2 2005, 12:21 AM
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OK, CJ, while you're at it, post the secret recipe for the Royal JPA. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)
I know you got one. Hey, I posted my Dreadnaught recipe, and that thing was precious to me. That was my secret weapon when it comes to IIPA's. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/tongue.gif)
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cj in j
post Jan 2 2005, 07:47 PM
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Triple Freak -- What I've brewed I've already posted in the Recipe Forum, pretty much every version I've made that has turned out well, I think (even the one that got BOS in the BrewBoard Open). Sorry, but there is no secret keep-it-to-myself Royal JPA recipe to give. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/cool.gif)
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smokey
post Jan 2 2005, 07:54 PM
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BTW, TF, I appreciate the Dreadnaught recipe. I've been wanting to try this beer since you reccomended it to me months ago. I can't get it in GA, but once I get my AG cherry popped on an easier beer, I'll be making it.
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