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> Chat Transcript - Lallemand Scientists, Tobias Fischborn & Forbes Wardrop
kroyster
post Jan 31 2005, 09:43 PM
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QUOTE
A very special Chat is lined up for this Sunday. We have two guests lined up. Tobias Fischborn and Forbes Wardrop, both from Lallemand! All of you that have been brewing 10 years or more already recognize the huge advances in dry yeast over the last several years. And there's a new product out there called Servomyces -an ultimate yeast nutrient!!! These gentlemen were instrumental in these developments and have agreed to join us for this weeks Chat. A little history:
Tobias Fischborn was appointed research scientist for Lallemand, Inc. in March 1998. He is now in charge of R&D and QC for all brewing related products. He graduated from the Technical University of Munich at Weihenstephan in 1993, where he obtained a degree in engineering in brewing and beverage technology. In 1993, Tobias started his PhD at TU Munich /Weihenstephan to work with Prof. E. Geiger on “Research on Behavior of Lager Yeast during Drying“. Prior to his studies in Weihenstephan he worked as a brewer at Brewery Ph. & C. Andres in Kirn, Germany

Forbes Wardrop was appointed microbial physiologist for Lallemand, Inc. in September 1999. He is working on mineral and vitamin enriched yeasts for the fermented beverage industry. Forbes graduated from the University of Abertay Dundee in 1994, where he obtained a degree in biotechnology. In 1994 he started his PhD at the same University to work with Prof. Graeme Walker on “The Physiology of Industrial Yeast in Continuous Culture”.

Now, a slight twist on the usual protocol - If your question is directed to one guest, please use either "?T" or "?F"


al: Our guest has arrived.
fischbor: Hello, less ogf
Listerman: I get this pain along all the dioades on my left side.
twocent: <knew someone was gonna do that>
Aenea: Hello Dr. Fichborn
al: Dr. Fischborn, tell us how the new Servomycces works?
fischbor: Hello, less of the Dr. you can call him Tobias and me Forbes, sorry in advance about any typos that may appear
Aenea: good starting question ale!
al: Is it actually a nutrient or an enzyme?
fischbor: Servomyces is a mineral enriched yeast that enhances fermentation performance, specifically rate
fischbor: It is not an enzyme but a brewing yeast
twocent: ?
Aenea: ?
fischbor: It can be found in two versions, live and dead, most often found as the dead one in the US
fischbor: We enrich a brewing yeast with Zinc, this Zinc enriched yeast is then used as an organic carrier of biologically available zinc
al: ....end?
fischbor: end
al: go twocents
twocent: so, if you are using this yeast, will it affect specialty yeasts we use for a particular 'style' or taste?
twocent: and that sounds cannibalistic...
twocent: organic carrier
twocent: end
fischbor: It works as a nutrient to help your yeast ferment to it's full ablilty.
fischbor: Yeast can be a bit cannibalistic
twocent: doesn't affect taste any?
fischbor: Tests in various universities has not shown any great changes in flavour profile except removing harsh sulphur components
twocent: ok. thanks.
fischbor: Yes it is an organic carrier in this case Zinc
fischbor: end
al: Go Aenaes
Aenea: Is this Serrvomyces a GMO or does it occur naturally? why would it not compete or recombine with the pitched specialty yeast? How is bioavailable zinc different from zine found in galvanized metals (something we try to stay away from in our Mash tuns)?
fischbor: Servomyces is not GMO, it is a brewing yeast that has been around for a long time. Due to the way Servomyces is made the yeast itself is not very vital. It will never outcompete a healthy pitching yeast.
fischbor: If you use as recommended it will be used in the last 5-10mins of the boil.
al: ?
fischbor: Zinc as a free mineral can be complexed by other molecules, in wort phytic acid is a good example
Listerman: ?
fischbor: These zinc complexes will be reomved from the wort during lautering. So 95% of the zinc in the malt is lost in the spent grain.
twocent: ?
fischbor: Zinc in servomyces has been biologically incorporated into the yeast, thus safeguarding it from possible complexing
fischbor: Mineral zinc added later in the boil will also form complexes that will not be available to the yeast
fischbor: end
al: What is it that mkes it so powerfull?
fischbor: The interaction between the zinc and the yeast, which makes it more effective than mineral zinc at similar levels
fischbor: end
al: Go Listermann
Listerman: Is this a variation on yeast hulls?
Bosc: ?
fischbor: No, Servomyces is whole yeast
fischbor: end
al: Go Twocents
twocent: and since most is lost in spent grains, what about extract brewers?
twocent: most of the zinc that is.. end
fischbor: Even after the boil phytic acid and other complexing agents can continue to complex the minerals. These complexes are too big for the yeast to use
fischbor: end
twocent: ty
al: Go Bosco
Bosc: In the case of mead, would you recommend staggered multiple servo, or is one capsule enough?
al: ?
fischbor: Mead experience is a bit limited, sorry. But if you are dealing with higher gravity you may want to think about adding more
fischbor: end
al: If repitching yeast, should Servo be added to further batches? Or is the initial dose sufficient?
Te: good question, ale!!
Bosc: ?
fischbor: There is no harm in adding Servomyces each time. But if used as recommended the next generation after Servomyces use may have sufficient zinc to see it through.
Listerman: ?
fischbor: Yeast is very good at storing zinc, and otehr minerals, but after each reound of cell division these reserves are halved.
fischbor: end
al: So an overdose is possible?
fischbor: It is harder to overdose the yeast with Zinc using Servomyces, too much of any good thing can be detrimental.
al: In what way?
fischbor: We have tested this effect and found that there was no negative effect with 1ppm of Zinc in the wort. With one servomyces addition you are adding 0.3ppm Zinc.
fischbor: It can start as s reduction in fermentation rate that will evenutally lead to yeast death.
fischbor: end
al: Go Bosco
Bosc: Since servo is whole yeast, is it possible to culture it as you would any other yeast?
fischbor: You could culture it, but the effect would be lost as you prolonged the culture. Of course if you are using the dead servomyces, as sold in the US, then this becomes even harder.
fischbor: It is a mixutre of yeast, process and zinc that makes Servomyces unique
fischbor: end
al: Go Listermann
Listerman: Does it effect a yeast's reproduction rate, fermentation rate or both?
Bob: ?
fischbor: It is a bit of both, the faster fermentation brings on the reproduction rate
fischbor: end
al: Go BobH
Bob: Can Servo cause any increase in fusel alcohol production
al: ?
fischbor: We have not seen any data from tests or customers that would indicate this.
fischbor: end
Listerman: ?
al: You've used the term "live and dead" how can one culture a dead strain?
fischbor: Precisely....if you have the dead version then there is no way.
fischbor: end
al: Go Listermann
Listerman: In lagers, can it reduce lag times at lower temperatures?
Spectr: ?
fischbor: It is unusual to see reduction in lag times, we have heard this from some breweries in the past but we can't determine if Servomyces had this effect.
fischbor: In general the main use of the zinc is metabolic......the last phase of ethanol production.
fischbor: Once a fermentation begins the Seromyces effect starts to kick in
fischbor: end
al: Go Spectre
Spectr: So any servomyces sold in the U.S. are already dead and cannot be reused?
al: ?
Bob: ?
fischbor: Yes it is dead, and so unculturable
fischbor: end]
Listerman: ?
al: If I wanted to brew a 30 gallon batch, how shoud I scale the Servo? 6 capsules?
fischbor: Yes, one capsule is good for 5 gallons (20L) so 6 does make sense.
fischbor: end
al: Go BobH
Bob: Will you incorporate this nutrient into the dry yeast in production now...ie pre boosted dry yeast
Spectr: ?
Oldfar: ?
Palmetto_Pu: ?
fischbor: Usually our dry yeast carries sufficient zinc for a single generation brew, under good conditions. Our dry yeast will normally contain more zinc than liquid cultures.
fischbor: end
al: Go Listermann
Listerman: What is Servo's effect on bacteria and wild yeast infections? Does it help or hurt?
fischbor: If you are adding nutrition for your brewing yeast than you are also feeding anything unwanted.
fischbor: end
al: Go Spectre
Spectr: Do these work with mead where a boil is not required? At what temp do they work/not work?
fischbor: It should still work with mead, but it would be advisable to boil the servomyces in some water before adding to your mead.
fischbor: end
al: Go Oldfart
Oldfar: Does servo permit fermentation to significantly higher alcohol levels?
fischbor: Yes, Servomyces can allow you to reach higher alcohol levels. Another important mineral in this situation would be Magnesium.
fischbor: end
al: Go Palmetto_Pub
Palmetto_Pu: Since the only reason you add the capsule to the boil is to disolve the capsule. Is there an advantage to boiling the Servo as opposed to adding it to the fermenter? Along the same line as Spectre's question. Would you boil it for pasturizing purposes?
al: ?
fischbor: The main reason for the boil addition is pasturizing the Servomyces. The boiling also seems to increase the effect of servomyces.
fischbor: end
Oldfar: ?
Bosc: ?
al: There have been huge advances in the manufacture of dry yeast within the last ten years. Comments?
twocent: ?
fischbor: Yes, we are all working at this. Compared to the early days, real brewing strains are being used, higher quality control and improved production process have all added to the improvement of dry yeast.
al: BTW, my clock is now reading 9:00. Dr. Fischborn is now officially "off the hook"
fischbor: end
twocent: <:)
fischbor: Happy to take a few more though
fischbor: end
al: Go Oldfart
Spectr: ?
Ken: What makes this better than any other yeast nutient out there?
Ken: nutrient
al: Oldfart?
al: Go Bosco
Bosc: Could you just put the servo capsule in your starter when you make it? Any difference?
fischbor: Well, Bioavailability is the main thing. Most of the other nutrients are mixes of chemicals and maybe some vitamins.
fischbor: end
Ken: What is bioavailability?
fischbor: Yes you could, the starter would then become a better quality pitching yeast. This is used by many breweries in their propagation systems
fischbor: end
al: Go twocents
twocent: boiling servo would kill it.. right?
twocent: so, it is dead
twocent: no matter what, if you boil it to pasteurize it
fischbor: Bioavailability, just because you have something present in the beer does not mean it is available to the yeast. Mashing is a method of improving the bioavailablity of sugars for the yeast.
twocent: end
fischbor: end
al: Go Spectre
Spectr: I lost my question, sorry.
al: Go Kent
Ken: I already was answered,Thank you
fischbor: Yes, but we do not guarantee that servomyces is completely dead. The boiling assures that if one or two cells slip through then they will not affect your process
fischbor: end
Spectr: ?
al: Go Spectre
al: ?
Spectr: Do these work with wine applications?
fischbor: Yes. We do have wine nutrients specifically for wine fermentation that allow for the wine making process. This includes servomyces.
fischbor: end
Spectr: What are the differences?
Spectr: Between beer and wine.
fischbor: Wine fermentations are normally much harder for the yeast than beer fermentation. Wine must is often low in nitrogen, low in lipids, minerals........
fischbor: end
Bosc: ?
al: What are the advantages of 'live' Servo over 'dead' servo?
al: Go Bosco
Bosc: Does servo contain urea?
krrot: whats hoppening
krrot: (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)
fischbor: There is no difference in either version. Live servomyces was specifically developed after requests from German Authorities
fischbor: But is it much harder to produce.
fischbor: end
fischbor: No urea in Servomyces, not accepted in potable alcohol production
fischbor: end
al: ?
al: How long has Servo been used commercially? Which Breweies? American or European?
fischbor: Servomyces has been available for the last 5 years. It is used by breweries in the UK, Europe, North America and in Asia. This is cover both Craft and Industrial Breweries
fischbor: end
al: I love the fact that servo is now available to homebrewers!!!
fischbor: Well, that seems to be about it. We have enjoyed the questions that have been forwarded. Again showing that craft brewers are well informed and genuinely concerned about their passion.
al: Do we have any more questions for Dr. Fischborn?
Oldfar: Is Servo also the source of Magnesium?
fischbor: Not yet! (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif) More on this soon!
fischbor: end
Bob: anyone using it making Sake, seems like a great thing for nutrient poor fermentations like Sake
fischbor: We thank you all for your participation and to Ale for being a gracious host. For further questions Tobias will leave contact information with Ale.
fischbor: We are now off to finish some Bitburger!
Bob: enjoy and Thanks
fischbor: Sake needs more nutrients than Zinc alone, but it would probably help.
fischbor: end
al: Thank you very much for participating tonight, Dr. Fischborn!
Bob: I'll try it
fischbor: Thank you Ale, good night. Slàinte Mhath. Prost
fischbor: end
twocent: thanks for coming
Jon_: Thank You Ale
Jon_: very informative
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