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> Chat with return guest John Palmer, metallurgist, homebrewer, author
post Jun 28 2005, 03:00 PM
Post #1


Group: banned
Posts: 666
Joined: 16-March 02
From: Mooresville, NC
Member No.: 201

John Palmer will be our return guest this Sunday. John is the author of "How to Brew" and has written countless articles for Zymurgy, Brew Your Own, and Brewing Techniques magazine. John's day job is a Metallurgical Engineer and he's particularly qualified to answer questions about Brewery construction.

jjpalmer: howdy!
Thomas: I believe I saw john saturday morning at our booth (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif)
ale: Good evening, John. Glad that You could make it tonight...
jjpalmer: Yes, that was me, I recovered fairly quickly
jjpalmer: Glad to be here!
Thomas: hey oldfart
ale: We're just warming up and bantering around a bit.
Thomas: I need to go smash 20 lbs of raspberries
Thomas: back in a bit
ineedacatscan: enjoy
jjpalmer: I am using Firefox, because Chat doesn't work on Safari, due to IE specific code I think. Is this coming thru?
ineedacatscan: sure is...
crooper: yeah
ineedacatscan: i've had trouble with firefox dropping the chat window.
crooper: i had the same problem
jjpalmer: so far so good
ineedacatscan: i think it's a java conflict of some sort, but i just use IE for the chats now
jjpalmer: IE keeps hanging up on my Mac. I am using 10.4 and it doesn't seem to work any longer.
ale: Computers. Don't you just love 'em?
ineedacatscan: pays the bills for me
jjpalmer: usually...
ale: HBA was frozen solid a couple of weeks ago due to a server crash.
ineedacatscan: and we all nearly had a heart attack
ale: We're still trying to recover.
jjpalmer: How did you come up with that moniker Pillowman?
Pillowman: I'll have to tell you in Orlando, this is a public forum (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wow.gif)
ale: (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/biggrin.gif) Oh boy, I've heard this.
jjpalmer: Say no more!
ale: I asked him the same thing a couple of years ago lol
Pillowman: It's a nickname from a character that was in a movie I saw during my batchelor party.
ineedacatscan: awful awful images flooding my brain
jjpalmer: Timone and Pumba:[/color] "Oooh"
cj_in_j: Hi Thomas! I'm here!!!
Thomas: cj!
Thomas: lol
jjpalmer: Hey CJ.
ineedacatscan: good morning cj
Thomas: WORK???
ale: My clock now reads 8:00. Questions for Mr. Palmer?
cj_in_j: Boy, I hate getting yelled at.
Thomas: get a grip!
Oldfart: ?As the USA's leading advocate of extract brewing, I was wondering how your new book on extract brewing is coming along?
Thomas is still racking mead onto raspberries
twocents: (9room)
jjpalmer: Answer to OldFart:
the Extract Brewing book has been pre-empted by the 3rd Edition of HtB.
cj_in_j: As it should be.
cj_in_j: (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif)
twocents: ?
ale: ...end?
jjpalmer: Well, I need to unload the self-publishing aspect of the book you see... (end)
twocents: .
ale: go twocents
twocents: there is third edition out now>
twocents: of how to homebrew?
twocents: sorry I'm late...
jjpalmer: Ah, no, the 3rd edition of HtB is in-progress
twocents: ty
jjpalmer: It will consist of more info on sugars, color, clarification...
Oldfart: ?Pre-empted or cancelled? I'm too old to wait forever, you know...
jjpalmer: and will re-orient or baseline low gravity boils for extract brewing and batch sparging for all grain (end)
ale: Go Oldfart
jjpalmer: OF:[/color] Just pre-empted really. Brewers Publications want both.
jjpalmer: end
bryansnarked: How often do you get to brew these days?
ale: ?
ale: John, What first drew you into brewing and how long have you been at it?
jjpalmer: I first got into brewing because I liked Dark beers instead of Corona. That was in 1990 or so
Pillowman: ?
jjpalmer: Then I brewed a lot (before kids) and now I do about 3 batches a year, mostly in the spring. (end)
bryansnarked: 3?
ale: Thanks. Go Pillowman
Pillowman: Oxyclean is my new best friend as far as cleaning. Any concerns with SS or brass or copper?
Spectre: ?
jjpalmer: No, I don't think so. Stainless steel would shrug it off, brass may be pitted my long soaking. Oxyclean is sodiium percarbonate without some of the corrosion inhibiting silicates I believe. end
ale: Go bryansnarked
bryansnarked: John, if you only get to do 3 batches a year do you not drink much, have alot given to you or (gasp) buy it?
bryansnarked: Or are they large batches?
jjpalmer: Hah! I buy most of the beer I drink it seems. But the 3 kegs will last me most of the year, because I don't have more that 2 beers a night usually. Too much to do in the evenings with kids school work etc.
jjpalmer: end
ale: Go Spectre
bryansnarked: What are your 3 brews?
jjpalmer: Well, usually for the last couple years it will be a Vienna, a Porter, and a Wheat Pale Ale
jjpalmer: oh end
ale: Spectre?
Spectre: WTF, no cut and paste? Maybe I try Firefox.
Spectre: I had it all typed out. Dang.
ineedacatscan: try a shift insert
ineedacatscan: shift + insert key
twocents: ctrl + v
ineedacatscan: same difference
twocents: ctrl + c to copy
twocents: okok
Spectre: Yeah, I know all that. Not working.
hophead: ?
bryansnarked: John, heres a newbie question for you...
bryansnarked: Are aging temps as crucial as fermenting temps?
ale: go bryansnarked
jjpalmer: It depends on what you are trying to do. Lagering, then obviously temperature is more of a concern. but for ales, it is not such a big deal. If you go warmer, things will happen faster, if you go colder (ie cold conditioning like the brewpubs practice)
jjpalmer: then you will drop more proteins and tannin complexes. So if you want to address flavors, go warmer (ie same temperture as ferm) or if you want to address clarity then use colder. end
ale: Go Hophead
hophead: I noticed you once said you might back off recommending a secondary for low to average gravity ales (or something similar) in the 3rd edition. Do you still feel that way?
jjpalmer: Yes, I have talked about this with several yeast experts, and they have all agreed that an ale beer fermentation is usually robust enough that racking is not necessary, and that the yeast function conditioning reactions typically are done by the end of
jjpalmer: end of 4 days. And the danger of autolysis is really marginal under these conditions, so yes, in the interest of simplicity for newbies, and laziness for older folks, No secondarys for most average gravity ales. end
ale: Spectre, do you still have a question?
ineedacatscan: score one for the lazy people
twocents: hahahaha
hophead: Thanks John! I've been doing this lately and it seems to work very well. I'm a lazy people
Spectre: I've been having fits recently to get my bottled beer with the proper carbonation. Some over carbed, some under, using the same amount of corn sugar and procedure. I'm thinking that I'll never get a decent carbonation of bottles unless I keg.
Spectre: Sorry for the delay, I had to retype that all over.
jjpalmer: I take it that you are bulk priming in a bottling bucket?
Spectre: YEs
jjpalmer: Well, it could be lack of stirring of the priming solution and the beer, or
brewmaster808: ?
jjpalmer: it could be you have differing head spaces, or
Spectre: But, if it was a lack of stirring, wouldn't it be a case where some were over carbed and some not?
jjpalmer: it could be that you just need to keg. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/biggrin.gif)
Ted: mmmmmmmmm kegging
Spectre: I'm getting some batches very low carb and some very high.
Thomas: Ted lol
jjpalmer: I have not bottled in years as a matter of fact. end]
ale: Go brewmaster808
Spectre: Yeah, I wish I had the funds.
jjpalmer: Well what about yor fill level?
brewmaster808: John, what is your take one water heater elements for kettles from a safety aspect non electrical side.
crooper: ?
jjpalmer: Re:[/color] B808:[/color] No experience. sorry.
Spectre: I fill them until the liquid on bottle wand hits the top.
Kellermeister: ?
brewmaster808: thanks, next
jjpalmer: Hmmm, for some reason, an inch of headspace makes for high carbonation, a quarter inch makes for low level, and I don't remember the reason why. end
ale: Go Crooper
crooper: Hi John, we?ve all read about pickling of brass to remove surface lead, but I?m still concerned about my health. Can you comment on the surface interaction of pickled brass with hot water, wort and beer? Thanks!
Spectre: It's always at least an inch.
Thomas: it could be that the level of carbonation has something to do with wheter or not the beer has actually reached FG or not
Thomas: how many oz of corn sugar for carbonating a 5 gallon batch?
jjpalmer: Pickling:[/color] Brass is pretty passive (inert) to hot water wort and beer. but an acidic environment with air will cause the zinc to be dissolved out of the brass, and you get pitting.
Spectre: It has to be the yeast. I brewed a hefe at 5abv that took 4 weeks to properly carb up, then I justed brewed a trappist that took only two weeks and it's over carbed. Same sugar per brew volume.
jjpalmer: I don't think there is enough lead in most home brewing setups to make a blip on your lead levels in view of the rest of hte enviromental sources and the bodies removal rate. See Appendix B for more info. end
Aeneas: thank you for talking some sanity on the topic jj
ale: Go Keller..
Kellermeister: What are some causes of cloudiness in a light ale? malt selection? conditioning time? What can I do to get a clear beer?
hophead: Sanity is over-rated!
twocents: am I sane?
crooper: ?
jjpalmer: Yes, it can be all those things - your ingredients. Malt - protein levels. Extracts - protein levels and degree of hot break formation during malt extract production. Yeast - flocculation. Water, lack of calcium. Lots of Hops = hop polyphenols which can th
ale: BTW, Am I caught up with the questions? Has anybody been skipped?? I've got 6 f****** pens in front of me and none of them want to write.
Ted: two cents, NO
twocents: ty ted..
bryansnarked: Sorry to those I cut in front of earlier, I didn't realize how this worked.
Ted: (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif)
jjpalmer: can throw haze. Then you have the possiblity of leftover starches and tannis from steeeping grains. You have to look at each recipe and its fermentation to identify the two or three most likely causes. end
Kellermeister: TU
ale: Go Crooper
crooper: Hi John, autolysis is an issue when leaving a batch of beer on yeast. Is it also an issue with storing harvested yeast? Thanks!
jjpalmer: yes, autolysis can happen to any yeast, any where that they are left in a low nutrient environment.
jjpalmer: If you totally deprive them of nutrients and stimulous though, you can get them to hibernate like when you store them in distilled water. end
ale: ?
ale: John, a followup on Hophead's question>>>
notwoohoo: hello
ale: Even if racking into secondary isn't absolutely necessary for ales, can't it still be beneficial?
Kellermeister: ?
ale: ...especially cold conditioning?
jjpalmer: Yes, it can. The key is to not do any harm. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif) It can definitely help clarify the wort and prevent the formation of soapy flavors from the trub if you intend to let it sit a while before bottling or kegging. Harm is oxidation. end
ale: Go Kellermeister
Kellermeister: Do some pilsner malts have a sour taste to them? Some of my pilsner malt brews taste sour like a Hefeweizen. I'm trying to figure out if it is the malt or contamination.
jjpalmer: Cold conditioning:[/color] I have not racked the last several batches I made. even my last Vienna lager. I lagered it in the primary and it turned out fine, although I did you finings when I kegged because I had to serve it 3 days later after a road trip.
jjpalmer: Re Keller:[/color] That I am not sure on. .. hmmm
MtnBrewer: Keller what kind of malt and what yeast strain?
Kellermeister: Bestmalz, WY 1007
MtnBrewer: Shouldn't get sourness from either of those
jjpalmer: Are you doing a long mash? are there reasons for you to suspect contamination? I don't know how the acidified malt is made by Weyermen, so I don't know how likely it is that the malt itself may be the cause. end
Ted: sounds like a little lactic bacteria to me
MtnBrewer: If you eat a kernel of the malt, is it sour?
ale: ?
Kellermeister: I don't think so.
MtnBrewer: I don't know either....go ale
crooper: ?
Aeneas: ?
ale: John, I'm sure that most of us are a little curious. Do you have a favorite style that you would like to perfect through homebrewing? If so, what?
notwoohoo: ?
jjpalmer: Acid Malt is made by steeping kilned malt in water until the lactic acid bacteia in the malt causes some acidification and then it is re-dried (Kunze)
jjpalmer: A favorite style....
Thomas: jjpalmer:[/color] depends on who the manufactor is, supposedly weyermann sprays their malt with lactic acid?
brewmaster808: ?
MtnBrewer: that's cheating
Thomas: of course it is, but is also the way to get reproducable results
Thomas: lol
jjpalmer: Well, I like Porter probably the best, although it is a hard call between that and a nice rounded amber with lots of noble hop aroma. Perhaps a combination of the two? end
ale: Go Crooper
crooper: Hi John, autolysis is an issue when leaving a batch of beer on yeast. Is it also an Why does repassivating stainless steel take awhile in ambient? Wouldn?t the chromium form oxides instantly with water or air?
crooper: whoops
crooper: Why does repassivating stainless steel take awhile in ambient? Wouldn?t the chromium form oxides instantly with water or air?
hophead: Hey...Weyermann's acidulated malt is da bomb diggitty!
jjpalmer: You are correct Crooper, the clean stainless steel repassivates spontaeniously in air. Water doesn't have the free oxygen to enable uniform passivation. end
Thomas: hophead:[/color] it's a great snack
Thomas: lol
hophead: lol
Ted: LOL
ale: Go Aeneas
Thomas: my favorite is torrified wheat though
Aeneas: John, please clarify, because I know there will be a lot of debate on the topic on the boards if this is not clarified now, in discussing the racking of "beers of average gravity", or lack of racking them, what do you define as a "beer of average gravity?"
Thomas: acid malt is 2nd!
jjpalmer: I consider average gravity to be up to 1.050, with a high percentage of fermentable sugars (80% fermentable). end
ale: Go notwoohoo
notwoohoo: Hello John, what is your favorite commercial beer?
jjpalmer: Ummmmm Lagunitas Censured rich coppery ale I think. yeah.
jjpalmer: end
ale: Go brewmaster808
brewmaster808: What is the difference between using a hopbacking and dry hopping, in the final product.
jjpalmer: Oh sorry, Lagunitas is in the SF bay area out here.
Aeneas: ?
jjpalmer: Okay, Hopbacking will extract more from the hops because it is done hot. Dry hopping can be mellower, but I dont have a lot of data for you on this question. I have not used a hopback in a long long time. I will research that question a bit as I work on
brewmaster808: ok thanks nexxt
jjpalmer: as I work on the 3rd edition. I have a friend that is head brewer at Firestone Walker that can probably address that. end;
ale: Go Aeneas
Aeneas: John, can you recommend an adhesive for use on stainless steel that is food safe and does not involve welding or solder?
jjpalmer: Ummm, no. I can ask my friends at 3M Center if they make anything like that though. end
crooper: ?
ale: For the record, my clock now reads 9:00 and Mr. Palmer is now "off the hook". Any more questions?
crooper: What kind of fancy equipment do you have in your brewery?
ale: Go Crooper
jjpalmer: Fancy? Well, I love Blichmanns Therminator. It works really well. I also just got a nice kettle screen to try from Dennis Collins called the Hopstopper, which should come in very handy. Other than that, i tend to make my own stuff and it is not very fancy.
jjpalmer: Well ladies and germs, I have really appreciated this opportunity to talk with you tonight, but now it's dinnertime and the kids are misbehaving...
bryansnarked: Thank you John
crooper: Thank you, John! It was a very informative session.
Pillowman: Thanks John!
twocents: goodnight john
MtnBrewer: John, thanks much as always
twocents: thanks for coming here..
Aeneas: thanks jjpalm
Mudd: Thanks John
brewmaster808: Thanks John and enjoy reading your books
ale: John, hold these thoughts, this last question opened a huge can of worms. Next time???
Aeneas: feel free to drop by any time jjpa
jjpalmer: Thanks!!! We can do it again soon, and you can always email me directly at john@howtobrew.com.
Askalon: Thanks John, aleays great to have you
hophead: Thanks John! We appreciate you
bryansnarked: sorry again to those who I cut in front of.
jjpalmer: Email me that last question of yours Ale and I can answer and post it late tonight. Gotta go, Thanks, bye!
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