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> 60 minute double bastard, crazy good or crazy bad ??
bobjohnson
post Sep 29 2005, 04:34 PM
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I have been playing around with developing clone of Double Bastard. Just as I think I have the numbers where I want to be, in regards to OG and IBU’s, I thought I would step out of the box and make the brew more “fun”, by adding a whole bunch of hop additions. Kind of a 60 minute Barleywine.

Here is what I have for a 5 gallon, all grain (batch sparge in 48 quart Ice Cube cooler):

19lb pale 2 row
2 lb crystal 120

1.5 oz Chinook @ 60
0.5 oz Chinook @ 55
.25 oz Chinook @ 50,45,40,35,30,25,20,15,10,5
1.0 oz Chinook @ flame out

I would use Wyeast 1056 because I have a large slurry saved up. (would make a large starter with it and use O2 in both starter and fermenter)

Based on QBREW this gives me:

1.10 OG 127 IBU 10.2% ABV - based on 65 % efficiency.

Not necessarily going for an exact clone on Double Bastard, just looking to get a similar tasting, very good barleywine. Also something that will be fun to brew.

Anyone have thoughts on the recipe? Since I am adding all the different hop additions, any other hops I should substitute somewhere? The only thing I am remotely locked into is the yeast, since I have the nice large slurry.

Let me know what you think!
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Triple Freak
post Sep 29 2005, 08:21 PM
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It's going to be way too sweet with 2 lbs of crystal in it.
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Derek
post Sep 29 2005, 09:14 PM
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I think it sounds great!

You might be able to use even more crystal. I've used over 2 lbs in 1.080 brews, with WAY less hops (~40 IBU).

"Barley Wine" by Brewers publications has a recipe on pg 135:

20# 2-row
2.5# crystal 120L
1oz Columbus (13% AA) - 1 hr
1oz First Gold (8% AA) - 15 mins
WLP 001

OG=1.096
FG=1.028
IBU=70mg/L

The double bastard is REALLY syrupy too... you could probably go to 3# of crystal!

On page 143 there's actually a recipe with 4.75 lbs of caramel (30L)... though it uses a drier yeast.
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sdeweese
post Sep 29 2005, 09:27 PM
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QUOTE(Derek @ Sep 29 2005, 09:15 PM)
I think it sounds great!

You might be able to use even more crystal.  I've used over 2 lbs in 1.080 brews, with WAY less hops (~40 IBU).

"Barley Wine" by Brewers publications has a recipe on pg 135:

20# 2-row
2.5# crystal 120L
1oz Columbus (13% AA) - 1 hr
1oz First Gold (8% AA) - 15 mins
WLP 001

OG=1.096
FG=1.028
IBU=70mg/L

The double bastard is REALLY syrupy too... you could probably go to 3# of crystal!

On page 143 there's actually a recipe with 4.75 lbs of caramel (30L)... though it uses a drier yeast.
*


I'm not familiar with the Double B- but the AB I have brewed had: Special B, Biscuit Malt and Aromatic. Those are not options for the Double?
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Guest_BryanH_*
post Sep 29 2005, 10:40 PM
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Have to side with TF here, 2 lbs of crystal 120 in a five gallon beer is way too much. The 120 has a very assertive flavor and will also make the beer quite dark.
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notwoohoo
post Sep 30 2005, 07:40 AM
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I am not concerned with the crystal as much as the hop selection. All Chinook? (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/crazy.gif) Chinook isn't regarded as having the best aroma and can get harsh in its' bitterness at the levels you are using.
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bobjohnson
post Sep 30 2005, 12:32 PM
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The reason for the high amont of Crystal 120 and all the chinook is, this started out as a Double Bastard based recipe. I previously made a AB clone which used 1.5# of crystal 120 and was also all chinook. That beer turned out great, so that is where this one started. Where it ends up, who knows....

I guess right now, I am most intrigued by the idea of a barleywine made with a hop addition every 5 minutes. Just need to figure out the right blend of grains and hops. I'll play with some more ideas and report back with an update.

Any suggestions as to what hops you think would blend well together in something like this, please let your suggestions fly.
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Genexx
post Sep 30 2005, 02:42 PM
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QUOTE(Triple Freak @ Sep 29 2005, 08:22 PM)
It's going to be way too sweet with 2 lbs of crystal in it.


QUOTE(Derek @ Sep 29 2005, 09:15 PM)
You might be able to use even more crystal.


(IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/rolf.gif) ... classic
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ipaguy
post Sep 30 2005, 02:54 PM
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QUOTE(bobjohnson @ Sep 30 2005, 12:33 PM)
The reason for the high amont of  Crystal 120  and all the chinook is, this started out as a Double Bastard based recipe.  I previously made a AB clone which used 1.5# of crystal  120  and was also all chinook.  That beer turned out great, so that is where this one started.  Where it ends up, who knows....

I guess right now, I am most intrigued by the idea of a barleywine made with a hop addition every 5 minutes.  Just need to figure out the right blend of grains and hops.  I'll play with some more ideas and report back with an update.

Any suggestions as to what hops you think would blend well together in something like this, please let your suggestions fly.
*

Centennial and Cascade, heavier on the Cent.
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Derek
post Sep 30 2005, 03:04 PM
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QUOTE(Genexx @ Sep 30 2005, 03:43 PM)


Well...

The 1056 is fairly dry, with an apparant attenuation of 73-77%. With a nice yeast cake, you should be around the high end (how well did it attenuate the first brew?).

I've referenced other barley wines that used EVEN MORE crystal malt.

From my experience, I'd consider 2.5-3# of crystal... but you may not want all of that to be 120 L.

There doesn't seem to be any evidence that this would be too sweet? Did you notice the hop schedule?

If you like the chinook, go for it. I've had a few all-chinook beers & loved them! With the pine, cat & citrous flavours, it's like a hop blend all by itself! You might want to toss in the first batch, before it comes to a boil (Somehow it actually retains some more of the pleasant flavours).

Sdeweese, do you have your AB recipe handy? The more malts the merrier!

This post has been edited by Derek: Sep 30 2005, 03:09 PM
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sdeweese
post Sep 30 2005, 07:29 PM
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Here's what I have for a 5 gallon batch of the AB:

14 lbs. Two Row OR

8 lbs. Two Row
2 lbs. Am. Wheat
4 lbs. Am. Munich

.5 lb. Special B
.5 lb. Biscuit Malt
.5 lb. Caramunich
.5 lb. Aromatic

Regarding hops: I am told AB is an all Chinook brew but prefer now to only use them for FWH and at 60 min., using Columbus at 50 min., Centennial at 30, 5 and DH.

Always love this brew, a double dose would kick my arse, I'm afraid...I never learned to sip-or stop at one.
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Derek
post Sep 30 2005, 08:58 PM
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I haven't tried brewing one myself, but I think I'll try doing an oaked (with cubes) version this winter... maybe it'll mellow out the double a little (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/biggrin.gif)

Here's another recipe:
http://www.tastybrew.com/brews/view/40

11.5 pounds pale two-row malt
1.5 pounds crystal 120
1.25 oz chinook pellets (12.5 aa%) (15.6 AAUs) @ 90 min
1.0 oz chinook pellets (12.5 AAUs) @ 30 min
0.5 oz chinook pellets (6.25 AAUs) @ flame out
1 tsp Irish moss
White Labs WLP007 or WLP001 (English Ale Yeast)
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bobjohnson
post Sep 30 2005, 11:52 PM
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QUOTE(Derek @ Sep 30 2005, 08:59 PM)
I haven't tried brewing one myself, but I think I'll try doing an oaked (with cubes) version this winter... maybe it'll mellow out the double a little (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/biggrin.gif)

Here's another recipe:
http://www.tastybrew.com/brews/view/40

11.5 pounds pale two-row malt
1.5 pounds crystal 120
1.25 oz chinook pellets (12.5 aa%) (15.6 AAUs) @ 90 min
1.0 oz chinook pellets (12.5 AAUs) @ 30 min
0.5 oz chinook pellets (6.25 AAUs) @ flame out
1 tsp Irish moss
White Labs WLP007 or WLP001 (English Ale Yeast)
*


Derek,
This is the recipe my 60 min Dbl Bastard was based on. Today I played around with a version of a Barley Wine 90 minute. Basically took the recipe for a dogfish head 90 min and uped everything to barleywine levels. But, after playing with that, think I would in the end rather try the beefed up AB recipe you listed.


There is another AB recipe put there that uses magnum, centenial & columbus. Should I try to reformulate using those?
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Derek
post Oct 1 2005, 10:13 AM
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QUOTE(bobjohnson @ Oct 1 2005, 12:53 AM)
Derek,
This is the recipe my 60 min Dbl Bastard was based on.  Today I played around with a version of a Barley Wine 90 minute.  Basically took the recipe for a dogfish head 90 min and uped everything to barleywine levels.  But, after playing with that, think I would in the end rather try the beefed up AB recipe you listed.
There is another AB recipe put there that uses magnum, centenial & columbus.  Should I try to reformulate using those?
*


Whatever you do, let us know how it turns out!
(I'd go with your first recipe... maybe substitute some of the pale for the tastier stuff sdeweese posted).

I'm bottling a couple of belgians next weekend, then using the trappist yeast for a cider... so it'll be a while before I get around to something else.

I think my next two will be a Double chocolate coffee stout, and either a swing at an oaked bastard (even though I've only tasted the AB & DB), or an Oaked Yeti Imperial stout. Both using a low attenuating ale yeast. I want something really bold, thick, caramelly & viscous... totally contrasting the light Belgians.
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Derek
post Oct 4 2005, 10:20 AM
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Here's my plan:
http://www.beertools.com/html/recipe.php?view=4870

3 kg. American Vienna
1 kg. American Caramel 120°L
1.5 kg. American Munich
0.2 kg. American Caramel 80°L
3.25 kg. American Pale Liquid Extract
60 g. Chinook (Pellets, 10.5 %AA) boiled 75 min.
30 g. Chinook (Pellets, 10.5 %AA) boiled 15 min.
Yeast : White Labs WLP005 British Ale info

Original Gravity ~1.101
Terminal Gravity ~1.027 (syrupy enough?)
Color ~25 °SRM
Bitterness ~110.0 IBU
Alcohol (%volume) ~10 %

American Oak in the secondary. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/biggrin.gif)

Thoughts?

This post has been edited by Derek: Oct 4 2005, 10:32 AM
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