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> return guest Charlie Papazian, Father of American Homebrewing
post Nov 7 2005, 04:53 PM
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This Sunday's Chat will feature guest Charlie Papazian. To most of you Mr. Papazian needs no introduction. He's considered to be the Father of American Homebrewing. He's the author of "The Complete Joy of Homerewing". First published in 1984, it is now in its newly released third edition. His other works include "Home Brewer's Gold" and "The Homebrewer's Companion". Mr. Papazian is the founder and president of the American Homebrewer's Association and the Association of Brewers.

Mr. Papazian's new Book-"Microbrewed Adventures" - A Lupulin Filled Journey to the Heart and Flavor of the World's Great Craft BeerWill be wide open for discussion.

Book Description

From trading recipes with the bad boys of American beer to drinking Czech-Mex cerveza in Tijuana and hanging out in the beer gardens of Africa, Charlie Papazian has seen, and tasted, it all.

Microbrewed Adventures is your shotgun seat to unique, eccentric and pioneering craft-brews and the fascinating people who create them. Travel with Charlie as he crisscrosses America and circles the globe in search of the most flavor-packed beers. Along with discovering the master brews of Bavaria, secret recipes for mead and the traditional beers of Zimbabwe, you will find lessons on proper beer tasting and read interviews with American master brewers including those of Dogfish Head, Magic Hat, Rogue Ales, Stone Brewing and Brooklyn Brewery. Charlie also includes special homebrew recipes inspired by the innovative brewers who are making some the best beer in the world.

ale: Thank you for joining us tonight, Charlie. You already have some inquries lined up.
dgonzalez: good evening mr. papazian
PHPguy: hi charlie
ale: Go PHP
CharlieP: I'm ready now. just got a beer.end
PHPguy: Charlie:[/color] I have a friend who hates hoppy beers. I tried to steer him towards what I though was a "malty" beer. Specifically a Chimay. He disliked it. Can you suggest a couple of malty beers?
Connie: 2.
Connie: oops
Connie: oops
Connie: ok, I'm new
CharlieP: rather than specific beers, I'd steer him to doppelbocks, bocks, english brown ales, and other not so hoppy styles
PHPguy: any specific beers?
PHPguy: personal favorites?
Mindflux: ?
CharlieP: Dilly Dally winterbock is a good one
PHPguy: thanks
dgonzalez: ?
ale: ....end?
PHPguy: yea end.
ale: Charlie?...end?
CharlieP: My personal favorites are usually the one in my hand. Other than that I will usually seek local beers. end
ale: Go Connie
Connie: 2.
Connie: I did my first brew day before yesterday?
CharlieP: Dried malt extract powder is best dissolved in cold water. That's the trick. end
PHPguy: ?
Aeneas: ?
ale: Go Mindflux
Connie: so disolve first in cold water THEN incoporate?
Mindflux: Charlie, can you tell us a bit about your Newly published book? I don't think a lot of folks are familiar with it yet.
CharlieP: Add cold water to brewpot. Add dme. stir dissolve then add remaining water as hot water. That is best. end
CharlieP: Yes. It is called Microbrewed Adventures and it just came out two or three days ago...
CharlieP: It has about 50 homebrew recipes both extract and all grain...
CharlieP: Also most of the book are stories from my beer adventures during the past 35 years...
CharlieP: About the beers encountered and especially the brewers encountered. ...
Mindflux: Sounds good, I'm always up for some new reading!
CharlieP: Half the book is are adventures and tales taking place in the USA and the other half all over the world.
CharlieP: INteresting people, places. beers. end
Mindflux: thanks! end.
michaelMick: ?
ale: Go donz
dgonzalez: do you prefer to drink american microbrewed/ brewpub beer, or european beers (belgiums, german lagers, etc.)? why?
CharlieP: I don't choose beers by where they are brewed necessarily, but if I have a choice I usually begin withAmerican craft beers or homebrewed certainly when available...
bear774: ?
CharlieP: I have everyday drinking beers on tap 365 days a year - all homebrewed. Just brewed a beer called Horny Donkey IPA...
Synghyn: (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/biggrin.gif)
CharlieP: Racked some Whoop Moffit IPA and also moved to lagering "Claude of Neptune." All these recipes will eventually be in Zymurgy Magazine...
CharlieP: I'm wondering how many of you on line are actually
CharlieP: American homebrewers Association members?
Ted: I am
Hop_Mania: me
CharlieP: end
Mr_Peat: I was
hophead: Me
bonjour: me
Eimajz: Me
ale: I am
twocents: I should.
cj_in_j: Me too, but Zymurgy is arriving so late that I'm probably not going to renew.
Casey: me
PHPguy: not me sorry....haven't brewed for long enough to make it worthwhile
ale: Go PHP
dgonzalez: thanks. i agree. end.
Connie: hmmmm...I wonder if Chauvan is?
huleoo: me
CharlieP: nice to see, though you folks who aren't may not be voting (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif) end
Synghyn: was
dgonzalez: i was, but now brew professionally. end.
michaelMick: not yet
mga: I am not tell me more
CharlieP: to cj_in_ j:[/color] arriving late? That is not usual. You should call our toll free number and sort out the problem 1-888-ucanbrew
ale: PHP, You had something for Charlie?
cj_in_j: I'm in Japan, and have been in contact by email.
cj_in_j: Doesn't seem like anything can be done.
PHPguy: yea:[/color] he mentioned mixing DME in cold water
PHPguy: but i thought I was supposed to add it to my boiling water?
PHPguy: can you explain more please?
scoop: ?
CharlieP: php:[/color] yes you have got to eventually boil the extract with hops, etc. but when first mixing, say 2 gallons of water with dme, add 1 gal of cold , Mix. then add hot. end
PHPguy: interesting
PHPguy: that requires much more than my current apartment setup with one pot for boiling...
PHPguy: does clumping really matter that much?
PHPguy: if properly stirred in clumping should be ok.
CharlieP: php:[/color] no no no. Use one pot. Add dme. Add 1 gal of cold water. stir.dissovle. the add 1 more gal of hot water. Add hops, bring to boil and etc. end
ale: Go Aeneas.
Aeneas: Does the AHA have a plan to increase the interaction between craft brewers and homebrewers on the East Coast? It seems that the AHA has a lot of support west of the Mississippi, but the relationships between homebrewers and craftbrewers on the EC...
Aeneas: is not as rich... and I am a AHA member
PHPguy: thanks charlie.
CharlieP: Aeneas:[/color] yes...let me explan
CharlieP: There will be a few AHA membership rallies on the east coast soon...
CharlieP: We had one in Utica, NY at the FX Matt Brewing Also one in Delaware with Iron Hill and Dogfish Head.
CharlieP: Soon we will be having one at Boston Beer Co, in Boston. Also Harpoon Rally is in the works.
CharlieP: These rallies are beer and food and fun and tours and special beers ...
CharlieP: Also it is free to AHA members. If you want to go you still can , but you must join. Join at the door or get the scoop ahead of time if you are members.
CharlieP: The Boston Beer one is sometime in Mid January.
CharlieP: end
Aeneas: Why does the GABF happen in Denver each year?
CharlieP: Next year will be the 25th anniversary of the GABF
ale: Followup?
dgonzalez: if i may add to Aeneas' question. do you contact the breweries for such happenings? what is involved?
Aeneas: yes, that is a follup
CharlieP: There are 2,500 volunteers that come to Denver to help.
CharlieP: The Colorado beer laws permit us to have the kind of festival the GABF is...
Mindflux: That and Colorado has more microbreweries per capita than any other state in the USA.
CharlieP: Lots of other states have laws that would not allow, for example, the brewers themselves to serve their beer...
Mindflux: so it would make sense.
CharlieP: Also there are a lot of politics involved. So happens Denver and Colorado really support the GABF
CharlieP: We also get a lot of support from Colorado TV, RAdio, newpapers, etc...
CharlieP: That's not to say we won't ever have a gabf related event elsewhere...
CharlieP: so in short that's the short answer.
CharlieP: end
ale: Go Michealmick...
Aeneas: thank you
michaelMick: charlie you mentioned earlier you have a lot of stories of interesting brewers, what do you think it takes to transition from homebrewer to professional brewer, any common threads between brewers you met, or just a love of beer and passion to brew fulltime
CharlieP: Good question..
CharlieP: Most every successful craft brewer/ microbrewer,/ pub brewer you will find a homebrewing connection...
CharlieP: this I'm certain of...
CharlieP: It aint' easy starting a microbrewery. You have really got to have a committment to the business of beer, which is not the same as the hobby of homebrewing...
CharlieP: That said, if you have the passion about beer,willing to listen to customers, go the extra mile to assure great and consistent beer. Learn a lot more thatn you know now...
CharlieP: Also employ good people to sell the beer/ marketiing. Rare is the individual who can do it all, or even half. you 've got to surround yourself with good people and also develop a LOT of management skills. Think about it a lot before yo utake the plunge
CharlieP: that said...
CharlieP: You can alway just become a great brewer. Go to professional training courses, do a lot of apprenticing at breweries ...
CharlieP: have an open mind and learn a boat load . end
michaelMick: thanks. end.
ale: Go Bear774
bear774: I do an overnight mash and was wondering if you have tried this or have an opinion on its affects on the qualtiy of the beer.
Mindflux: oh mr. antiestablishment arrives.
CharlieP: Overnight mash...
the_stain: i'm here for beer chat. i don't know what you're here for mindflux, but i suggest you keep your opinions to yourself. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)
CharlieP: Why do you do an overnight mash? I wonder. I get conversion in 30 minutes and ready to move on ..? end
the_stain: I can add to that, Charlie. I do an overnight mash to break up the brewday. I can wake up, start the sparge at 6am and be done by 10am.
CharlieP: tell me how large of a batch are you doing. end
bear774: the conveniance of it i heat my mash to temp and go to work or to bed come home and heat my sparge water.
bear774: cuts my brew time down
ale: Go Scoop
littlewoy: hey everyone
scoop: Hi Charlie! Per THBC and most "popular" thought, mashing/sparging should be done at a certain ratio - 1.25/per #. When I am doing lower gravity beers I constantly run into a problem of not having enough end product. Per THBC, you state that-
scoop: one should add water after sparging if this happens, pre-boil.. Is this still the way you opt for, or should I compensate by bumping up either the mash or sparge..
scoop: And if so, which and by how much? I have done that, and have done a second/third running until I reached a set grav..
littlewoy: anyone know anything about yeasts?
CharlieP: The long brew days people relate to me. - I can't relate to. From the time I mash in to immersing my brewpot in a cold water bath it takes 2 1/2 hours.. 3 hours max. The wort cools in about 45 minutes. i transfer into carboy and by the time I clean
CharlieP: up I am done in 4 1/2 hours. Everything is cleaned up and yeast pitched.
littlewoy: ?
CharlieP: scoop:[/color] I just add water if Idon't have enough for the volume...
scoop: temp matter?
CharlieP: yes i can relate . When I brew my 1.038 beers...
CharlieP: I always have to add water to get my target gravity.
Hank_Reardon: Sorry for being late. Has anyone asked about batch vs. fly sparging? How about problems related to party-gyle mashing?
scoop: ok.. I have been bumping my mash/sparge up to 1.6 q/#
scoop: i will have to try adding at the end
dgonzalez: ?
CharlieP: I would not continue to sparge once I have run the calculated water through the grain. if you sparge too much you get harsh characters.
CharlieP: end
scoop: nice.. thank you! end
twocents: ?
DJ_in_KC: Charlie, I just started up about 11 months ago after a 20 yr layoff. What do you think has been the best advance(s) in the last 20 yrs. I'm still catching up.
CharlieP: someone help me get realigned to which question Ishould be answering thanks end.
Mindflux: scoops was the last authorized question by ale.
CharlieP: DJ:[/color] yeast for sure
ale: Go DGonz
CharlieP: And availability of such a variety of ingredients.
dgonzalez: if we can get back to the overnight mashing. what would be the benefits? it just seems detrimental to me. there are no more benefits after conversion has taken place. only negetives. to you agree charlie
CharlieP: There's the tech side, but I don't follow that too much, since my techniques are very basic and hands on 5 gallon or 6 gal batch.end
CharlieP: dgonzalez:[/color] well,...
Hank_Reardon: ?
ale: DJ in KC, You need to get in line. I've put you behind twocants.
CharlieP: I don't know about negatives too much. certainly it involvescoordinating two days of homebrewing... I've never tasted overnight mashes...
CharlieP: but if the quality is terrific, continue...everyone develops their own system. and if the system results in beer you love and
weave6139: ?
CharlieP: that you continue to love homebrewing (like I do) then keep on brewing the way you brew. end
Trub_Lou: how does one get a question "authorized" in here?
dgonzalez: thanks. end
Ted: post a "?" and then be ready for your turn
Trub_Lou: ?
CharlieP: man time flies in this chat room!!! end
ale: Sorry. Twocents is next.
cj_in_j: Yeah, we rock!
twocents: I've heard that batch sparging doesn't leach out tannins like fly sparging can do. Short of adding excessivley hot water, is this true?
twocents: <end>
ale: Sorry - Two cents is next.
CharlieP: Hmmmm... don't know what "fly sparging"... but
twocents: the spinning arm
CharlieP: I've never heard that excessive sparging is ok... My grain bed is
cj_in_j: Fly sparging = continuous sparge.
CharlieP: only about 18 inches deep. Max I ever need to sparge is about 2 quarts per pound, like I outline in my book.
twocents: thanks..
Ted: go Hank reardon
CharlieP: Even with my strong beers, I can use less water to sparge and and simply add water to the wort and be right on my target gravity. Which brings me to a point i want to .
cj_in_j: ale -- Is Hank next?
Eimajz: yes
CharlieP: say. I crush my grains a bit finer than most brewers do. I get about 85% efficiency on a regular basis and sometime i get 90%...
ale: TwoCents was next
cj_in_j: 2c = done
twocents: ale, I got it in.. thanks..
Ted: he's answering Two cents now
Hank_Reardon: What problems are associated with party-gyle brewing (deep grain bed)?
ale: Sorry, my computer locked up on me
CharlieP: Now here's the thing many of you may be surprised about. I use a Corono grain mill - not a roller mill.
Eimajz: *)
cj_in_j: You Luddite!!!
michaelMick: whoa
Ted: LOL
SudsInSeattle: ?
Ted: you guys are harsh
cj_in_j: Too many tannins, Ted.
CharlieP: The quality is excellent... I get high efficiency. And i've tried roller mills. My methods wont' translate to large batches, I think, but for 6 gallons batches it works terrific.
michaelMick: i want my $120 back
CharlieP: ask my friends who drink you my homebrew. end
twocents: I'd like one of your brews...
dgonzalez: ?
CharlieP: p.s. My water is quite soft.
CharlieP: end
ale: Go DJinKC
CharlieP: waiting for a ? end
seanhagerty: charlie..can you give us brewers advice..whats the things you think are important enough to tell us to be careful with them or to pay special attention to them
DJ_in_KC: Charlie has there been anything in the last 20 that you think has really improved your brew?
CharlieP: Hmmm. let me answer the two questions at the same time
the_stain: ?
ale: DJ is first in line. Sorry, got cut off
CharlieP: Rather than answer them directly, here's a few all grain tips.
CharlieP: Use a 1/2 tsp of cinnamon when you mash:[/color] minimizes hot side aeration...
CharlieP: Do a protein rest at 133 degrees F for 30 minutes before the conversion mash at 155 degrees for another 30 mintues..
CharlieP: resulting in a terrific dense creamy head...
cj_in_j: Followup Q on cinnamon.
CharlieP: Have a long knife handy to cut the top 4 or 5 inches ofyour grain bed to break up the "dusty mud" on the top part of the mash...
CharlieP: Truly ferment lagers at about 55 degrees f. and then lager at 38 or below.
CharlieP: that a few tips. end
SudsInSeattle: i withdraw my ?
DJ_in_KC: "?" I thought the newer modified grains didn't need the protien rest. My head retention has been good - great.
cj_in_j: Can you explain a bit more about cinnamon and HSA? And is there any flavor contribution from the cinnamon?
CharlieP: You arenot doing a protein rest to develop nutrients. That is the reason for doing a higher temp protein rest.
DJ_in_KC: Cinnamon - I just can't - I'll brew in a vacuum first.
CharlieP: The lower temp protein rest develops the kind of proteins for attractive foam and also saturates your mash so that when you bring it up to 155 degrees you get really
CharlieP: fast and efficient conversion.end
CharlieP: p.s. You don't taste the cinnaomon at all...Also
ale: SeanH, have you been addresSED?
CharlieP: Coriander seed also is a strong anti oxidant.
CharlieP: end
seanhagerty: yes i have..thanks man
ale: Addressed?
ale: Go Stain
DJ_in_KC: Thanks Charlie - one of my early mentors. end.
the_stain: Charlie, do you use the Boulder tap water for your beers and do you ever find the need to modify it?
CharlieP: another tip:[/color] probably not new to many of you... use hop pellets at the rate of about 10 gms per 5 gallons
twocents: no matter the alpha rate?
the_stain: I am of the opinion that soft water (such as you find in Boulder) can be used to brew a good variety of beers without the need for much modification and wonder if you agree
CharlieP: when cellaring or lagering to get delicate hop aroma and flavor in final beer. One of my favorite hops for dry pelleting lagers and ales i s Crystal hops. end
the_stain: i've brewed anything from light lagers to stouts with very soft unmodified spring water and had them come out great
CharlieP: Boulder, colorado tap water is very soft, but it has chlorine. I don't live in the city, but
CharlieP: the water I use in the winter is pretty soft and has minimal chemical treatment, nevertheless I like to charcoal filter the stuff out.
Mindflux: 10gms per 5g of hop pellets for what? i got lost there
CharlieP: in the summer i use well water that is relatively soft but has some calcium . Great water.end
ale: Go Weave
weave6139: The dry yeasts have been getting much better, I have seen better results, starting fermentation wise, than when pitching starters. Do they(dry yeasts) handle higher gravities beers ok? I pitch the yeast without rehydration.
CharlieP: I've had some GREAT results with Saflager and Safale. Their dried lager yeast...
CharlieP: really does ferment at cold temperatures and is very neutral. I like it as a backup when I don't have a starter ready.
PHPguy: ?
CharlieP: I haven't experimented with a whole lot of other dried yeast. sorry. end
weave6139: thanks. end
ale: Go davg
CharlieP: p.s the saflager seems to handle high gravities perhaps up to 8 or 9 or even 10%... I carbonated a barley wine with it when all else was failing. end
dgonzalez: what do you think is next for the brewing industry? in your opinion, will it continue to grow? stabilize? downsize? do you see any new fads? what areas of the country will "wow" you with beer? what is "wowing" you right now? etc.
CharlieP: What is wowing me now is
CharlieP: that the quality of craft beer (which i think is what you are asking me about) is very consistent high quality...
CharlieP: Trends. You'll see the everyday drinking popular beers continue to be more popular , but craft brewers will
CharlieP: continue to say thank you to their loyal beer fans by making
CharlieP: extremee and interesting beers that push the boundaries of beer styles.
Mr_Peat: ?
CharlieP: We will see some good growth in 2005. And things are going well for craft brewers in general in that I expect that trend to continue in 2006
CharlieP: It's a greast time to be a beer drinker in the USA! Isn't it? end
dgonzalez: thank you for your thoughts. if you are in charlotte, nc. please stop by Rock Bottom. i'd love to have abeer with you. end.
ale: For the record, my clock now reads past 9:00. Mr. Papazian is now "off of the hook"...
dgonzalez: excuse me, i mant to put the word "ever" in charlotte...
ale: Have time for one more, Charlie?
CharlieP: I'll hang out for another 5-10 minutes, but dinner is ready and I have guests.
ale: Go Mr. Peat.
Mr_Peat: I was curious about this. If you have used Peat grains? If so, does steeping vs Partial mash vs AG usage of these different styles using Peat bring out different characteristics...good or bad.
CharlieP: If anyone is in the DC or NYC area the first week of December, drop me an email at charlie@brewersassociation.org and I'll let you know
CharlieP: the details of my book signing on Dec 1 in NYC and on Dec 6 in Wash. DC.
CharlieP: end
seanhagerty: thanks for your words charlie
PHPguy: ?
Connie: Thanks Charlie
Aeneas: cool maybe I'll come see ya in NYC
mga: Thanks for your time Mr P.
linuxelf: Thanks for stopping by Charlie. We really appreciate your taking the time.
PHPguy: thanks a lot charlie
drumrboy22: thanks for your time
ale: Go PHP
michaelMick: unbelievable
michaelMick: thanks a lot
PHPguy: just curious what charlie's thoughts on Servomyces are.
Mr_Peat: so no answer?
PHPguy: its a heavy change from classic style brewing....
CharlieP: It's been fun. Can you tell my typing was effected/affected by the pint of homebrew I've been sipping between questions?end
CharlieP: Servomyces...
twocents: uhhhhh
CharlieP: I use it when I can remember to add it during the final 10 minutesof the boil. I've heard pro brewers say that it does make a difference...
CharlieP: I have not done side by side experiments, but for the small cost, why not use it , especially when making high gravity bers. end
Mindflux: can you elaborate quickly on the 10g of hop pellets to 5g of beer.. what was that in relation to? dryhopping?
PHPguy: tnx
CharlieP: one more question. end
Mindflux: you mentioned it as a tip
Mindflux: sorry
CharlieP: Ok hop pellets...
CharlieP: If it is an ale I often rack off primary(70 Degrees F) to a secondary and add pellets for the 55 degrees cellaring for aweek or two. and if
Mindflux: ahh ok, so it was in relation to dry hopping. i must have missed that
CharlieP: it is a lager i will rack fromprimary ferment at 55 degrees into a secondary, to which I have added pellets and then the secondary goes into a cold lager fridge at about 38 degrees for 3- 8 weeks
CharlieP: depending when I have the opportunity or need to keg. end
CharlieP: That's it folks. Gotta go eat the last of the rainbow trout my wife and I caught this summer in Wyoming...
hophead: Folks, Charlie has done more for the homebrewing hobby than anyone...Lets hear it for Charlie P. Thanks Charlie!
Hop_Mania: thanks for your time Charlie, I really appreciate everything you've done for this great hobby
CharlieP: and relax. don't worry and have a homebrew.
Palmetto_Pub: Thanks Charlie
CharlieP: end.
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