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> Saison, Complete kick ass recipe.
Pseudolus
post Oct 16 2006, 12:07 PM
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My first brewniversary is coming up in November. Gotta make something special. Maybe a dark saison, possibly even spice it up a-la some of Stoutguy's recipes.

Hmm...
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Big Harry Deehl
post Oct 16 2006, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE(mr_bungalow @ Oct 16 2006, 10:42 AM) *
How do you maintain a temp of 78 for an extended period of time?


Are you kidding me? I live in Alabama......TRANSLATION : Bloody effen hot.
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Big Harry Deehl
post Aug 13 2007, 10:57 PM
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I thought I would try to do this again this year. I did 2 batches this summer in the Alabama July heat but did not do the 2 stage sac rest.

.........the verdict...................

Not nearly as dry. I mashed @152 (supposedly optimal for alpha and beta amalyse action) and the FG was 1.012 instead of 1.006. All the other variables were the same.

BOTTOM LINE.......

I believe the two stage rest (144-152) is a good idea for a dry beer.

Brew on!
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Jimmy James
post Aug 14 2007, 12:21 AM
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Thanks Harry. I have been looking to dry out my Saisons a bit more, so I am going to try the two-stage mash. I appreciate you posting the results! Now I just have to get after the 10 gal of Saison I have around to free up some bottles...
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erichonour
post Aug 14 2007, 07:18 AM
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FWIW, with almost all the Belgian beers I've made in the last year or so, including Saisons, I've been doing a fairly long (90-minute) single infusion mash in the 144-147 range. In all of those beers, attentuation was 80%+, often into the high 80% range, once over 90%. My saisons have all fallen to the 1.007-1.008 range.

Just another point of data FYI, but I'm getting fine attenuation and dryness without raising the mash temp to 152.

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EH
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Thirsty
post Aug 14 2007, 08:47 AM
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When doing these long mashes, are you batch sparging to clear the tun, or do you mash out at 168 before sparging?
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Big Harry Deehl
post Aug 14 2007, 08:54 AM
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I do not mash out. I fly sparge w/ @ 170* water.

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Big Harry Deehl
post Aug 14 2007, 09:02 AM
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EH-

It certainly appears that it is important to have a long Beta rest to make a dry saison. I will try this beer with the single Beta Rest next time.
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MAZ
post Aug 18 2007, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE(Big Harry Deehl @ Aug 13 2007, 10:57 PM) *
I thought I would try to do this again this year. I did 2 batches this summer in the Alabama July heat but did not do the 2 stage sac rest.

.........the verdict...................

Not nearly as dry. I mashed @152 (supposedly optimal for alpha and beta amalyse action) and the FG was 1.012 instead of 1.006. All the other variables were the same.

BOTTOM LINE.......

I believe the two stage rest (144-152) is a good idea for a dry beer.

Brew on!

I totally agree BHD... 148-150 is a nice compromise in my mind. That WL 565 yeast is amazing as well, but you have to give it time. Here is this summer's saison which I just kegged... it tastes so good, I'll be draining this keg soon I'm afraid. Check out my notes - you really need a month of fermentation and secondary to get it down below 1.010 - and that's at 80F!

CODE
Recipe: Saison d'Evanstone
Brewer: Mark Zgarrick
Style: Saison
ype: All Grain

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Batch Size: 6.00 gal      
Boil Size: 7.66 gal
OG: 1.064      FG: 1.008   (87.5% apparent attenuation!)
Estimated Color: 6.1 SRM
Estimated IBU: 30.7 IBU
Brewhouse Efficiency: 67.5 %
Boil Time: 75 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amount          Item                                     Type         % or IBU    
12 lbs          Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM)           Grain        80.0 %      
1 lbs           Vienna Malt (3.5 SRM)                    Grain        6.7 %      
12.0 oz         Acid Malt (3.0 SRM)                      Grain        5.0 %      
4.0 oz          Caramunich Malt (60.0 SRM)               Grain        1.7 %  
1 lbs           Dememara Sugar (2.0 SRM)                 Sugar        6.7 %        

1.00 oz         Perle [6.60%]  (60 min)                  Hops         18.6 IBU    
1.00 oz         Styrian Goldings [5.00%]  (15 min)       Hops         7.0 IBU    
1.00 oz         Saaz [3.60%]  (15 min)                   Hops         5.0 IBU    

1.00 tbsp       Black/Green Peppercorns (Boil 5.0 min)   Misc                    
1.00 tbsp       Coriander Seed (Boil 5.0 min)            Misc                    
1.00 tsp        Orange Peel, Sweet (Boil 5.0 min)        Misc                    
  
1 Pkgs          Belgian Saison I Ale (White Labs #WLP565)        

Mash Schedule: Single Infusion, Light Body, Batch Sparge
Total Grain Weight: 14.00 lb
----------------------------
Name              Description                         Step Temp      Step Time    
Mash In           Add 17.50 qt of water at 163.1 F    150.0 F        75 min        

Notes:
------
7-5-07 - Brew day.  The spices were coursely ground with a morter/pestle (combined weight was 11 grams).  Yeast starter pitched @ 70F.  Ambient temp in garage is 80F.  Fermentation evident within 5 hours.
7-8-07 - Took gravity sample... SG=1.032 @ 78.5F.  Tastes great so far!
7-15-07 - SG=1.012 (1.010 @ 76F).
7-22-07 - racked to secondary.
8-11-07 - kegged.  FG=1.008 (1.006 @ 76F).  Very tasty.
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Yeasty Boy
post Aug 18 2007, 02:04 PM
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It sounds like your method worked, but if another way to really dry out a beer is to use a reverse two-step infusion.
Not sure if I made this up, but I started doing it early last year for some of my bigger beers:
You dough in everything but ~33% of the base malt at 154-ish, for 30m, then add the rest of the base malt and strike liquor to hit 145ish, for an hour. Seems to work well.
Also, in regards to Saison I have seen that both the DuPont strain and Farmhouse (Fantome?) are much higher attenuating in second generation, i.e., pitch on a yeast cake for the bigger saisons.
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csbosox
post Aug 20 2007, 01:27 PM
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I have used a single 145 mash in my Saison's and have consistantly gotten them down to 1.005-1.008 without using sugar, depending on the gravity it has been a little more or a little less than 90% apparent attenuation.
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markaberrant
post Aug 21 2007, 09:38 PM
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QUOTE(csbosox @ Aug 20 2007, 12:27 PM) *
I have used a single 145 mash in my Saison's and have consistantly gotten them down to 1.005-1.008 without using sugar, depending on the gravity it has been a little more or a little less than 90% apparent attenuation.


Me too.
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grafxdesin
post Aug 22 2007, 01:44 PM
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QUOTE(MAZ @ Aug 18 2007, 12:50 PM) *
you really need a month of fermentation and secondary to get it down below 1.010 - and that's at 80F!

I just order my ingredients for this, never done a saison before. Do you really need a month of fermentation for this beer? I don't know if i can wait that long. LOL How long did everyone else primary and secondary for?
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erichonour
post Aug 23 2007, 05:31 PM
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I think Denny posted recently that he got a saison with 565 yeast to finish in no more time than most beers. However, most posts I've seen say that they experience significantly longer primaries with 565 than with most ale yeast strains. Farmhouse Ales actually talks about the yeast appearing to taper off for a while, then waking back up and dropping another few points.

I've been using the Wyeast Farmhouse strain this summer, and it's very fast. Pitching a 2L starter, my first primary was done in 6 days; re-pitching even larger amounts since then, and fermenting in 80-dF ambient temps, my fermentations have typically fallen to 1.007 or 1.008 in about 5 days.

I haven't been giving these beers a long secondary -- just into the keg and wait for a tap to open up. The longest so far was about a 4-week secondary, and I really don't think it did anything to help the beer.

EH

This post has been edited by erichonour: Aug 23 2007, 05:32 PM
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rocdoc1
post Aug 23 2007, 10:31 PM
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I did my saison last weekend, OG 1.062, and within 2 days it was down to 1.042. On day 5 it was down all the way to 1.038, so it has definitely slowed down. Patience is a virtue with a saison.
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