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> Roeselare Blend Options, Sour beer ideas/possible group brew
doobahstop
post Feb 24 2007, 02:08 PM
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As many of you all are aware, Wyeast has the Roselare blend available one again! I am very excited about this opportunity to try my hand at another sour ale. My first experiment was a super saison which was soured with a bottle of Orval's brett and it is fantastic. Now I know that the classic Rodenbach-style Flemish red ale or an Oud Bruin would be the standard go-to options for this yeast, but I thought it may be fun to throw some ideas around about some different alternatives for the blend. IIRC, alcohol tolerance is around 9% and it will take 18 months to fully mature. Sour beer seems to be the next major trend in craft brewing, perhaps we could throw some ideas around and do a group brew with some different ideas and share our results when we are done. Anyone in?
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MtnBrewer
post Feb 24 2007, 02:15 PM
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I'm game. I think this is a very good idea.

I don't have any experience whatsoever with this yeast or sour beers in general. But my first thought is that it's going to be hard not to make a beer with this yeast that doesn't taste like Rodenbach. I'd be fine with just making a traditional one. However, I'm also very interested in maybe trying to push the envelope a bit. Sounds like fun.

I wonder what honey would do in such a beer?

<Pinnage>
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doobahstop
post Feb 24 2007, 03:11 PM
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I am guessing that honey would be an interesting flavor component in the beer, but I dont think that it would leave much for souring. I think that the way the brett and company work is that they can ferment not just glucose, sucrose, and maltose, but also dextrines. Since they work so slowly, I would think that the ale yeast would ferment most of the simple sugars and leave the dextrines for the critters.

I think you have a good point about the Rodenbach flavor that should be present no matter what. I think where the main areas of experimentation are going to involve grain bills and technique. What if you used exclusively pilsner malt and mashed high so as to keep some dextrines for the critters to work with? Or what if you went with Belgian pale malt with rye? Perhaps Munich and wheat malt? Or maybe pils malt with lots of crystal malt for complexity. Or try to pull off a portion of thin mash and boil the crap out of it to caramelize the sugars and take on a candy sort of richness. Although we would certainly end up with flavors and sourness similar to Rodenbach, I think that there is a lot of possibilities here. With a full maturation of 18 months, experimentation could take quite a while. If we could get several people trying different recipes or brewing techniques, we are sure to come up with some great beers and at the same time, we can trade and get the opportunity to grow as artisanal brewers through the experiments of our own and those of fellow brewers.
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blktre
post Feb 24 2007, 03:32 PM
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This is great and i will be following this thread very closely. Here is what id like to do and have for awhile now. If i can find one, i want to do this in a wine barrel. Ive thought about doing the entire fermentation in the barrel. Primary on out. If i cant find a barrel (im calling a friend and local headbrewer on Mon. for tips on barrel location) my gameplan will truly change. Otherwise,
what about using plastic hoping to get some o2 penetration? How about adding cherries towards the end. Or how about waiting 6 months and brewing a second batch and blending when the old beer is closing in on 1 year? I know this takes patience, but this beer does have time!
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doobahstop
post Feb 24 2007, 03:45 PM
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What kind of barrel is another interesting idea to toss around. I would guess that if you could get a red wine barrel, you would be a rich man as far as having a large amount of tasty beer goes. Bourbon barrels and virgin barrels are other options. I would think that if you started a solera kind of blending process, the bacteria would maintain themselves to the point where you could just keep topping it off every so often after bottling a couple cases.

My pack of Roselare is on order and should be in by mon or wed. Hopefully we can shuffle some ideas around and be brewing within a month or so.
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just-cj
post Feb 24 2007, 04:49 PM
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Sounds like a lot of fun -- but I'm not into sour beers at all. I'll watch what you guys come up with, but I don't think I'll be brewing with you.
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caskconditioned
post Feb 24 2007, 05:36 PM
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I'm in too.

I just got two of these large bins (see this post) and I'm planning on using one for my wild beers. This can be the inaugural brew! My only concern is that the plastic will leach chloroforms or some other nasty chemical if the beer is left in it for 6+ months. Any ideas?

The barrel idea would be great. I've seen 10 and 15 gallon barrels in the past but they have always been new and it would take a lot of work to break in. Maybe there are some home-wine folks that would part with a used barrel (searching the wine forums next).
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Pseudolus
post Feb 24 2007, 08:00 PM
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Sounds interesting. I haven't done a sour beer yet and was planning on doing something like Jamil's Flanders. Maybe I'll do another, too.

QUOTE(doobahstop @ Feb 24 2007, 03:45 PM) *
My pack of Roselare is on order and should be in by mon or wed. Hopefully we can shuffle some ideas around and be brewing within a month or so.
I thought that this was going to be available again in April as part of the VSS series. Are some places getting it already? Where? I would love to not have to wait that long. Thanks!
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phalanxausage
post Feb 24 2007, 10:39 PM
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I'm in. I was already tossing around ideas for things to do with this strain, so adding another group project will be great. I have always been nervous about letting those critters loose in my house but I have a friend that owns a lot of land with a farm on it in Chester, SC who agreed to let me store some wild brews in one of his buildings. It probably won't happen but I've thought about trying to overload a shack on his land with wild bacteria & do some spontanious fermentation experiments in a few years.
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shaggaroo
post Feb 25 2007, 11:02 PM
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Andy, this is a great idea! Casey and I have tossed this idea around just a week or so ago... we may be getting a used 30-gal wine barrel and then brew up 20 gallons each, toss in the yeast and like blktre let it go from primary on out.
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strangebrewer
post Feb 25 2007, 11:18 PM
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I'll pick up some of this one myself so you can count me in. I've had a number of sour beers and I've become really facinated with them but never made one. I have some Wyeast 3278 Lambic blend on hand too waiting for the right brew.
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Tim
post Feb 25 2007, 11:23 PM
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I am interested in trying either a Red or an Od Brun.
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Smooch
post Feb 26 2007, 02:42 AM
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I'm using it to brew the Flander's Red Ale recipe submitted by Jeff Sparrow in the latest BYO.

Though, I'm deviating a bit from the directions and will be following Jamil's advice to brew the flanders to 1.020 using a california ale yeast before throwing in the Roseleare for final fermentation to pectin formation and break up. I'll probably follow my first recipe with a second batch using the White Labs Belgian Sour Mix as a substitute for the Roseleare to compare the two yeasts (to test if the sour mix is an acceptable sub).

Sparrow's grain bill is a little different from Jamil's, but the secret is in the yeast apparently.
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blktre
post Feb 26 2007, 09:15 AM
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QUOTE(shaggaroo @ Feb 26 2007, 12:02 AM) *
Andy, this is a great idea! Casey and I have tossed this idea around just a week or so ago... we may be getting a used 30-gal wine barrel and then brew up 20 gallons each, toss in the yeast and like blktre let it go from primary on out.

Yea, this would be so cool. But finding a barrel will be tuff. In Sparrows Wild Brews he goes into depth about scraping the inside of the barrel to be able to get down further into the wood where the little buggers we want live. Also talks about barrel care. Im thinking about scraping the barrel when i get one!
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Smooch
post Feb 26 2007, 10:49 AM
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Just out of curiousity, could you use a freshly emptied bourbon barrel? I've seen the full barrels on line for as little as $95.

I'd think it would be easier to clean and treat a whiskey barrel than would a wine barrel given the tannins. Plus, the whiskey actually acts like a sanitizer. Not sure about the flavor effects though.
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