Staggered Nutrient & DAP Addition, Something new... Options

[HighTest]

For some time I've been reading about the timing of yeast nutrients and nitrogen additions as it related to commercial wine making. After analyzing this practice it became clear to me that it should also benefit other brewing activities such as mead & cider making. However, I don't think that it will significantly improve the fermentation of beer wort as it contains higher percentages of complex sugars than does certain wine, mead, or cider musts. But, this is only my opinion... (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif)

And so I have developed the following Nutrient Addition Schedule (NAS - I just love acronyms!) for mead musts, which I will begin using with my Deep Blue Braggot. The two products used in the NAS are SuperFood (Mrg by Red Star, sold by The Wine Lab) and diammonium phosphate (DAP). Will another type of yeast nutrient work? Most likely, but for reasons that will become evident, the amounts to use will not likely be the same.

HighTest's Basic Mead NAS:
· At inoculation – 4.5g each Superfood & DAP
· At active fermentation – 2.8g each Superfood & DAP
· Just before fermentation mid-point – 1.8g each Superfood & DAP
Note: Active fermentation is defined when the Brix drops 2-3 degrees, and the fermenation mid-point can be determined by (OG+TG)/2

This schedule adds about 147 ppm of timed yeast available nitrogen (YAN) to whatever may be available from the must. YAN is also known as Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN).

For those of you who do not have digital scales: 1 tsp of SuperFood weighs ~ 2.4g, and 1 tsp of powdered DAP weighs ~3.9g.

This post has been edited by HighTest: May 26 2005, 06:01 PM

[Dave in Indiana]

Looking forward to trying this with my next batch and the Deep Blue Braggot!

Thanks! (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)

Dave

This post has been edited by Dave in Indiana: Nov 8 2003, 07:20 PM

[HighTest]

Ok, so why go through all this? Well, it's a well known fact that honey is a poor source of nutrients, "Honey contains little amino nitrogen, with the lowest levels found in the lightest honeys." - re: Compleat Meadmaker, pg 54. Add to that honey's acid nature, and poor pH buffering capabilties and you have two factors that can adversely affect the yeast's ability to effectively to its job - low FAN & pH with little buffering.

Yeasts need nitrogen during their growth phase, and throughout fermentation. The NAS shown above provides the additional nitrogen they will need, when they need it. Be carfeful not to add nitrogen late in the fermenation (past the mid-point) as the yeasts loose their ability to take in nitrogen because of the effects of the alcohol.

Too large an influx of nitrogen can be harmful to the yeasts. It throws the cell's metabolism off balance leading to flavor problems, nitrogen wasting, and can even "yeast suicide"... (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/omg.gif) Too fast a fermentation can generate enough heat to kill the yeast.

Lastly, do not add nitrogen to a sluggish, or stuck fermentation because it won't help and it CAN hurt! The nitrogen will not be used by the yeasts, and the excess can cause the pH to rise and off favors to be developed by stimulating spoilage microbe growth.

[Pugs]

hightest,

great info. i'm sill trying to figure out the difference between diammonium phosphate and ammonium phosphate. there's got to be someone on here with the background to answer this. the reason i ask is that my yeast nutrient has ammonium vs diammonium.

This post has been edited by Pugs: Nov 8 2003, 08:10 PM

[RobZombie]

Di-Ammonium Phosphate common lab name (Dibasic Ammonium Phosphate) AKA: (DAP) is definitely different from Ammonium Phosphate. Chemically it has one less Ammonium. Physically Ammonium Phosphate common lab name (Monobasic Ammonium Phosphate) AKA: (AP). AP also has a lower pH when mixed into solution based on is lack of the extra ammonium. I could get more technical, DAP is the stuff that should be used. HighTest posted some good info about DAP in another thread
quote
"BTW, were you aware that there is a Legal limit for DAP additions to food & drink? The limit is 8 lb/1000Gal (18.148g / 5 gal batch) . The BATF raised the limit in 1990 from 1.7 to 8 Lb / 1000Gal."

Good luck (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/hehe.gif)

[HighTest]

I've made a small adjustment to the Basic Mead Nutrient Addition Schedule (NAS) for Braggots to account for the malt nutrients:

HighTest's Braggot NAS:
· At inoculation – 3.4g each Superfood & DAP
· At active fermentation – 2.2g each Superfood & DAP
· Just before fermentation mid-point – 1.4g each Superfood & DAP
Note: Active fermentation is defined when the Brix drops 2-3 degrees, and the fermenation mid-point can be determined by (OG+TG)/2

This schedule adds about 112 ppm of timed yeast available nitrogen (YAN) to whatever may be available from the must. YAN is also known as Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN).

For those of you who do not have digital scales: 1 tsp of SuperFood weighs ~ 2.4g, and 1 tsp of powdered DAP weighs ~3.9g.

[RobZombie]

Just finished my staggered NAS schedule. Inoculation SG 1.080 0.9g each DAP+YN
20hours later 2nd addition 0.56g …
72hours later 3rd addition SG 1.040 0.36g…
I don’t know if it helped but I can say it didn’t hurt the fermentation process.

This was a 1-gallon batch of Pina-Meloda with 2nd Gen Wyeast Sweet mead bubbled with pure O2. No complaints from me (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif) .

Thanks HighTest

[HighTest]

For comparison, my 5.5 gal braggot (OG 1.108, yeast 71B-1122) got 4 min O2, and the stages went something like this:
Stage 1 - 3.4 g each (Time zero)
Stage 2 - 2.2 g each (10.5 hrs later, SG = 1.097))
Stage 3 - 1.4 g each (27.5 hrs from time zero, SG = 1.059) (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)

[HighTest]

.99FG asked me about a NAS for a cider. Although I haven't used one on a cider (yet), I would probably start with this one:

HighTest's Basic Cider NAS:
· At inoculation – 4.5g Superfood & 2.3g DAP
· At active fermentation – 2.8g Superfood & 1.4g DAP
· Just before fermentation mid-point – 1.8g Superfood & 0.9g DAP
Note: Active fermentation is defined when the Brix drops 2-3 degrees, and the fermenation mid-point can be determined by (OG+TG)/2

[HighTest]

After reviewing the Wine Lab's 2004 catalog I have revised the original Nutrient Addition Schedule (NAS) for mead musts. In addition to mead, the revised NAS can be used for cider, and perry musts as well. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)

The two products used in the NAS are SuperFood (Mfr by Red Star, sold by The Wine Lab) and diammonium phosphate (DAP). Will another type of yeast nutrient work? Most likely, but for reasons that will become evident, the amounts to use will not likely be the same.

HighTest's Basic Mead, Cider, & Perry NAS (rev 1):
· At inoculation – 4.5g Superfood & 2.8g DAP
· At active fermentation – 2.9g Superfood & 3.9g DAP
· Just before fermentation mid-point – 1.8g Superfood & 3.9g DAP
Note: Active fermentation is defined when the Brix drops 2-3 degrees, and the fermenation mid-point can be determined by (OG+TG)/2

This schedule adds about 135-142 ppm of timed yeast available nitrogen (YAN) to whatever may be available from the must. YAN is also known as Free Amino Nitrogen (FAN).

For those of you who do not have digital scales: 1 tsp of SuperFood weighs ~ 2.4g, and 1 tsp of powdered DAP weighs ~3.9g.

I believe the changes have to do with this:

DAP is taken up before amino acids, so if too much DAP is added all at once, especially before fermentation begins, it may prevent yeasts from using amino acids. This can result in lower levels of positive aromas derived from amino acids, and leftover arginine, which is an ethyl carbamate precursor and a nutrient source for Brettanomyces and other spoilage microbes.

Also, DAP stimulates fermentation rate, so if too much is added at once, the yeasts can ferment too fast and kill themselves off with heat. For these reasons, it is much better to add DAP in stages through the first half of the fermentation, than to add it all at once.

For those for who this topic is new, I'd recommend reading it from the beginning... (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)

Lastly, I have been asked about using substitute nutrients (e.g., Fermaid K) for Superfood. Not knowing the composition of these commercial products I can only offer this comment from the Wine Lab for your consideration,

Most nutrients have a higher DAP content than Superfood. When Lisa Van de Water formulated Superfood in the mid-1980’s, her philosophy was to provide more of the complex ingredients yeasts need to balance inorganic nitrogen additions, and to allow wineries to add extra DAP as appropriate to supplement deficient musts.

How much more DAP is anyone's guess...

[Dave in Indiana]

Thanks for sharing this procedure with us.

Dave

[Greenblood]

Great information Hightest, I am attempting this procedure with my first ABC attempt. Just pitched last night.

[HurrayBeer]

I'm getting ready to make my first mead (getting married in June, hence my absence from the board) and I can't find Superfood anywhere? Any help guys?

[RogueBrewer]

I bought mine here Valley Vinters

[HighTest]

I'm getting ready to make my first mead (getting married in June, hence my absence from the board) and I can't find Superfood anywhere?  Any help guys?

Yes, as RogueBrewer noted Valley Vinters. Also, make sure you follow the FAQ on this subject as there have been some information & process updates...

BTW, congratulations. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif) (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif)