Astringency...does it ever go away?, trying to isolate 1st bitter batch issue Options

[Lytnin]

From all I have been researching so far the answer I have is......sort of, but not really. What are other people's experience with this?

Brewed NB's Scottish 80 and Dunkel kits back in mid-January. Both have been bottle-conditioning for about a month now. Tasted the Dunkel and its good, but has a really sharp bitter bite to get over before you get to the real flavor. The Scottish, well, bitter bite that just never goes away. I'm thinking this is probably astringency. I have gone over my notes to try to figure out how I might have gotten this. The Dunkel looks like I sparged with 180 degree water, which I normally only go 170-173 so maybe that was it for that one. I added 5.2 stabilizer to both mashes but didn't bother to actually check the Ph of the mash nor did I modify the Ph of the sparge water at all (usually don't and never had a problem). Mash times and temps for both was 60 minutes in the 152-154 degree range. Boil times were both 60 minutes. Dropped both to 64 degrees before pitching Wyeast Activator packs. Fermented both at ambient temp of 64 degrees for 8 days (activity stopped after 5 and FG was at about what I figured) then dropped the temp down to 45 for another 5. The only other thing I can think of that I did differently than other brews I have done, without this flavor, is used the new barley crusher I got for Xmas. I got what I believe to be a proper crush with the factory setting, and yes, I ran about three pounds of test grain through beforehand and then wiped the rollers out with a dry brush before using it "for real". Could it be I crushed too much and the astringency is coming from that? Just wondering where this flavor might have come from and if the Scottish has a chance of getting any better or if I'm sitting on 2.5 cases of drain water. I figure I'll give it another month before I make a final call.

[MtnBrewer]

First of all, let's be sure we're talking about astringency. Astringency isn't really a flavor and I wouldn't describe it as bitterness either. It's a sensation in the rear of the mouth of dryness or a "puckery" sensation. It usually occurs during the aftertaste, not up front.

So assuming this is really what you're experiencing, it's probably never going to completely go away. Actually, it will but by the time it does, the beer is going to be well over the hill anyway. You can keep the beer around for a year or two and see if it improves but my guess is that the beer will go stale before that happens.

I highly doubt that your crush is the cause. However, if it's a finer crush than you're used to, maybe you didn't vorlauf long enough to remove all the husks from the runoff. The high sparge temperature could be a factor. I sparge with water that hot but I acidify my sparge water to reduce the chance of tannin extraction. You underpitched but I don't see how that could be a factor. Other than that your process looks pretty solid. I'd say next time either sparge with a little cooler water or acidify it and see what happens. Also make sure you vorlauf enough so that there aren't any husks or particles in the runoff.

[JimInNJ]

I made a Dunkel in January. Last January. I used way too much dark Munich, got the water chemistry wrong, botched the decoction . . .

It was very astringent.

But it did get better. How much better? First place in Amber & Dark Lagers at the War of the Worts last weekend.

So I would say "Yes, astringency does eventually go away. But you may have to wait a year."

- Jim

[Wed]

My first beer was a bit astringent. I blame some of it on my water. It wasn't real bad, but 2 months later and I can't really taste it. Every now and then the first swig I'll really get hit with it, but it doesn't linger.

[Stuster]

I've found that astringency does go away, but as Mtn says, very slowly. It was a light-colour batch for me, before I got my water chemistry under control (and the reason I started looking water chemistry). It had certainly faded by 6 months, but it was still there. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/sad.gif)

Anyway, it might not be astringency I guess. Mtn's comments sound spot on. The possibly off topic question I have is about the yeasts you used. You said you made a dunkel (Munich or weizen?) and a Scottish but fermented them both at 64°F and I was just wondering which yeasts you used for that?

[Bearphin]

I have had astringency go both ways - both times with fruit beers using real fruits.....

The first one was an apricot ale which was quite astringent initially. About 6 months into the batch, it started getting better and a year out it was one of the best beers I have produced. Unfortunately, by that time I only had a couple of six packs left and did enjoy those...

The bad one was a peach kolsch. Even after a year, this one never got any better. I think that was due to the peaches being over ripe which might have added too much acids to the batch.

Never have had the issue with a non-fruit beer...

[Lytnin]

You said you made a dunkel (Munich or weizen?) and a Scottish but fermented them both at 64°F and I was just wondering which yeasts you used for that?

Wyeast German Wheat for the Dunkel and Wyeast Scottish ale for the Scottish.