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> Spring 2008 Community Brew - Final Recipe, T-58 Belgian-ish Rye PA
ewanzel
post Mar 27 2008, 06:59 PM
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Spring 2008 Community Brew
T-58 Belgian-ish Rye PA

Initial Discussion

Grain Bill Discussion

Hop discussion


All-Grain Option

Grain Bill
% Weight Weight (lbs) Grain Gravity Points Color
33.3 % 3.50 American Two-row Pale 19.4 1.3
14.3 % 1.50 American Six-row Pale 7.9 0.5
14.3 % 1.50 Rye 6.8 1.1
9.5 % 1.00 Flaked Corn 6.0 0.1
4.8 % 0.50 Belgian Aromatic 2.3 2.5
4.8 % 0.50 Belgian Caravienne 2.3 2.2
19.0 % 2.00 Honey 10.5 0.6 (Added at end of primary fermentation)

Hops
60 Min. Bittering Addition
Approximately 20-22 IBUs from one hop from the Fuggle family
Examples:
- 1.12oz Fuggles (5.1%AA) = 20.5 IBU
- 1.12oz Willamette (5.3%AA) = 21.3 IBU
- 1.12oz Styrian Goldings (5.5%AA) = 22.1 IBU
- 1.25oz Tettnanger (4.5%AA) = 20.2 IBU
- 1.00oz Progress (6.3%AA) = 22.4 IBU

20 Min. Flavor Addition
Approximately 4-6 IBUs from one hop from the Hallertau family
Examples:
- 0.50oz Hallertau (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU
- 0.50oz Liberty (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU
- 0.50oz Ultra (4.5%AA) = 4.9 IBU
- 0.50oz Crystal (3.7%AA) = 4.0 IBU
- 0.50oz Strisselspalt (3.8%AA) = 4.1 IBU
- 0.50oz Vanguard (5.0%AA) = 5.4 IBU
- 0.50oz Mount Hood (5.0%AA) = 5.4 IBU
- 0.50oz Hersbrucker (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU

Yeast
Safbrew T-58

Specifics
OG 1.055
FG 1.014
IBU 24-28
ABV 5.3 %
SRM 6


Partial Mash Option (With Honey):

Grain Bill

% Weight Weight (lbs) Grain Gravity Points Color
26.3 % 2.50 Light Dry Malt Extract 16.9 1.0
15.8 % 1.50 American Six-row Pale 7.9 0.5
15.8 % 1.50 Rye 6.8 1.1
10.5 % 1.00 Flaked Corn 6.0 0.1
5.3 % 0.50 Belgian Aromatic 2.3 2.5
5.3 % 0.50 Belgian Caravienne 2.3 2.2
21.1 % 2.00 Honey 10.5 0.6 (Added at end of primary fermentation)

Hops

60 Min. Bittering Addition
Approximately 20-22 IBUs from one hop from the Fuggle family
Examples:
- 1.12oz Fuggles (5.1%AA) = 20.5 IBU
- 1.12oz Willamette (5.3%AA) = 21.3 IBU
- 1.12oz Styrian Goldings (5.5%AA) = 22.1 IBU
- 1.25oz Tettnanger (4.5%AA) = 20.2 IBU
- 1.00oz Progress (6.3%AA) = 22.4 IBU

20 Min. Flavor Addition
Approximately 4-6 IBUs from one hop from the Hallertau family
Examples:
- 0.50oz Hallertau (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU
- 0.50oz Liberty (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU
- 0.50oz Ultra (4.5%AA) = 4.9 IBU
- 0.50oz Crystal (3.7%AA) = 4.0 IBU
- 0.50oz Strisselspalt (3.8%AA) = 4.1 IBU
- 0.50oz Vanguard (5.0%AA) = 5.4 IBU
- 0.50oz Mount Hood (5.0%AA) = 5.4 IBU
- 0.50oz Hersbrucker (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU

Yeast
Safbrew T-58

Specifics
OG 1.053
FG 1.013
IBU 0
ABV 5.2 %
SRM 8


All-Grain Option (Sans Honey):

Grain Bill
41.7 % 5# Two-row Pale
12.5 % 1.5# Six-row Pale
12.5 % 1.5# Rye
8.3 % 1# Flaked Corn
4.2 % .5# Aromatic
4.2 % .5# Caravienne

Hops
60 Min. Bittering Addition
Approximately 20-22 IBUs from one hop from the Fuggle family
Examples:
- 1.12oz Fuggles (5.1%AA) = 20.5 IBU
- 1.12oz Willamette (5.3%AA) = 21.3 IBU
- 1.12oz Styrian Goldings (5.5%AA) = 22.1 IBU
- 1.25oz Tettnanger (4.5%AA) = 20.2 IBU
- 1.00oz Progress (6.3%AA) = 22.4 IBU

20 Min. Flavor Addition
Approximately 4-6 IBUs from one hop from the Hallertau family
Examples:
- 0.50oz Hallertau (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU
- 0.50oz Liberty (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU
- 0.50oz Ultra (4.5%AA) = 4.9 IBU
- 0.50oz Crystal (3.7%AA) = 4.0 IBU
- 0.50oz Strisselspalt (3.8%AA) = 4.1 IBU
- 0.50oz Vanguard (5.0%AA) = 5.4 IBU
- 0.50oz Mount Hood (5.0%AA) = 5.4 IBU
- 0.50oz Hersbrucker (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU

Yeast
Safbrew T-58

Specifics
OG- 1.053
FG- 1.013
SRM- 7
ABV-5.2%


Partial Mash Option (Sans Honey):

Grain Bill
39.1 % 4.5# Light Dry Malt Extract
12.5 % 1.5# Six-row Pale
12.5 % 1.5# Rye
8.3 % 1# Flaked Corn
4.2 % .5# Aromatic
4.2 % .5# Caravienne

Hops

60 Min. Bittering Addition
Approximately 20-22 IBUs from one hop from the Fuggle family
Examples:
- 1.12oz Fuggles (5.1%AA) = 20.5 IBU
- 1.12oz Willamette (5.3%AA) = 21.3 IBU
- 1.12oz Styrian Goldings (5.5%AA) = 22.1 IBU
- 1.25oz Tettnanger (4.5%AA) = 20.2 IBU
- 1.00oz Progress (6.3%AA) = 22.4 IBU

20 Min. Flavor Addition
Approximately 4-6 IBUs from one hop from the Hallertau family
Examples:
- 0.50oz Hallertau (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU
- 0.50oz Liberty (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU
- 0.50oz Ultra (4.5%AA) = 4.9 IBU
- 0.50oz Crystal (3.7%AA) = 4.0 IBU
- 0.50oz Strisselspalt (3.8%AA) = 4.1 IBU
- 0.50oz Vanguard (5.0%AA) = 5.4 IBU
- 0.50oz Mount Hood (5.0%AA) = 5.4 IBU
- 0.50oz Hersbrucker (4.0%AA) = 4.3 IBU

Yeast
Safbrew T-58

Specifics
OG- 1.055
FG- 1.014
SRM- 7
ABV-5.3%

Helpful links for people extract people doing their first partial mash:

BYO Stove and Counter top partial mashing with a mesh paint strainer bag - a how-to-guide
BYO partial mashing with the oven

I plan to do a single-step mash at 152F ... if anyone needs help with water volumes, how to partial mash, or any other reason let us know and we will be happy to walk you through it.

(let me know if I forgot to include anythng...I'm a bit of a NOOB at this whole community brew thing.)
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sporkd2
post Mar 27 2008, 08:34 PM
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I'll try it later in april when I get some money together
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ewanzel
post Mar 27 2008, 10:43 PM
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Brewers sound off...when will ya'll be brewing this?

I won't have time to brew this for at least a couple weeks...do we want to aim for sometime before May 1st as a rough deadline?
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Oldfart
post Mar 27 2008, 11:47 PM
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Planning to brew this on Saturday, overnight cool, pitch Sunday. Will be splitting off about a gallon of wort to ferment with Nottingham.

Since I'll taste this before some of you even brew it, please tell me: Would I be a spoiler to reveal what my wife and I think about it? Me, I always wanted to wait until my kid's birth to find out if it was a boy or girl. Maybe I could preface it with something like **WARNING, SPOILER AHEAD !! ** --?

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zymot
post Mar 27 2008, 11:49 PM
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First: Excellent job there ewanzel. Got the job done completely and swiftly.

Second: What is the thinking about adding the the honey late primary/early secondary? (I understand why you do not want to boil/heat the honey)

Why wouldn't you add the honey after the the wort is cooled and before you pitch the yeast? Then you can stir in the honey real well and get maximum oxygen to the honey.

Third: Can some one point me to a commercial style that is in the family of this recipe? What ever is the closest or typical - a common example of what we are brewing here? I think I am looking to learn what the yeast is like. I understand nothing on a store shelf is really the same. I recently had a Deus Brut des Flanders from Bosteels. Is that a good example of the flavor profile T-58 gives?

zymot

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Oldfart
post Mar 28 2008, 12:01 AM
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QUOTE(zymot @ Mar 28 2008, 12:49 AM) *
[size=2][color="#FFFF00"]

Why wouldn't you add the honey after the the wort is cooled and before you pitch the yeast? Then you can stir in the honey real well and get maximum oxygen to the honey.

I add honey when I pitch, use honey a lot but never stir it, works for me.

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CarlosM
post Mar 28 2008, 12:02 AM
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idont get the weight percentages and yes I think I might brew this as my first AG beer maybe sometime late april.
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ewanzel
post Mar 28 2008, 12:39 AM
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QUOTE(Oldfart @ Mar 27 2008, 11:47 PM) *
Would I be a spoiler to reveal what my wife and I think about it? Me, I always wanted to wait until my kid's birth to find out if it was a boy or girl. Maybe I could preface it with something like **WARNING, SPOILER AHEAD !! ** --?


Not at all...I would want to know (if only for selfish reasons re: small tweaks etc).


QUOTE(zymot @ Mar 27 2008, 11:49 PM) *
First: Excellent job there ewanzel. Got the job done completely and swiftly.

Second: What is the thinking about adding the the honey late primary/early secondary? (I understand why you do not want to boil/heat the honey)

Why wouldn't you add the honey after the the wort is cooled and before you pitch the yeast? Then you can stir in the honey real well and get maximum oxygen to the honey.

Third: Can some one point me to a commercial style that is in the family of this recipe? What ever is the closest or typical - a common example of what we are brewing here? I think I am looking to learn what the yeast is like. I understand nothing on a store shelf is really the same. I recently had a Deus Brut des Flanders from Bosteels. Is that a good example of the flavor profile T-58 gives?

zymot


Zymot...first, thanks for your kind words. Second, based on my experiences with honey and "character sugars" in the past, I find that more of the flavor seems to come through when they are added later in the fermentation process...I assume (although I have no proof) this is because not as much of the aroma gets thrown through the air lock when the yeast is kicking off Co2 durring the primary...this could be just psychological, but it is something I have noticed. Third, I haven't had Deus Brut des Flanders from Bosteels, but I might describe it as being closest to the westmalle/achel strain, but with a twist that is undescribable...somewhat german wheat-ish (without the banana) and a bit more spicy. Sorry I'm not much help with that one

QUOTE(CarlosM @ Mar 28 2008, 12:02 AM) *
idont get the weight percentages and yes I think I might brew this as my first AG beer maybe sometime late april.


The percentages are helpful in recipe calculation (for me at least), and they are also an aid if you want to scale up a recipe manually.
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jimdkc
post Mar 28 2008, 01:15 AM
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QUOTE(zymot @ Mar 27 2008, 11:49 PM) *
Second: What is the thinking about adding the the honey late primary/early secondary? (I understand why you do not want to boil/heat the honey)

Why wouldn't you add the honey after the the wort is cooled and before you pitch the yeast? Then you can stir in the honey real well and get maximum oxygen to the honey.

zymot


My understanding is that vigorous fermentation tends to scrub the aromatics and flavor compounds out of the honey. Adding in secondary supposedly avoids this and retains more honey flavor and aroma.

Jim
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jimdkc
post Mar 28 2008, 01:18 AM
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QUOTE(Oldfart @ Mar 27 2008, 11:47 PM) *
Since I'll taste this before some of you even brew it, please tell me: Would I be a spoiler to reveal what my wife and I think about it? Me, I always wanted to wait until my kid's birth to find out if it was a boy or girl. Maybe I could preface it with something like **WARNING, SPOILER AHEAD !! ** --?


I say go ahead and report your results ASAP. I was late brewing last year's Community Spring Ale... and one of the things that spurred me on to finally brew it was all the reports on how good it was!

Jim

This post has been edited by jimdkc: Mar 28 2008, 01:19 AM
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beeronice
post Mar 28 2008, 08:30 AM
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I'll probably order things I need tonight, I had been holding off an order to see how this finalised. Some of the things are special order, so it it'll be two weeks to the store, probably another 2 weeks in transit. End of april before I'll do this one.
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Pseudolus
post Mar 28 2008, 09:14 AM
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QUOTE(jimdkc @ Mar 28 2008, 02:15 AM) *
My understanding is that vigorous fermentation tends to scrub the aromatics and flavor compounds out of the honey. Adding in secondary supposedly avoids this and retains more honey flavor and aroma.

Jim

I'll probably split the difference and add it to primary, but after active fermentation of the grain-based wort has started to tail off. I've done that with sugar additions to higher-grav Belgians, and don't see that it wouldn't work here, too.
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Pseudolus
post Mar 28 2008, 09:16 AM
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And it'll probably take me a few weeks to get to this. I've got a few lined up (pre-crushed from the LHBS), but this will be the next in the queueueue (however you spell that).
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sdeweese
post Mar 28 2008, 10:29 AM
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My ingredients have been ordered and will brew it next weekend.

OF, I say give us your feedback whenever you like, that's your norm, right? Might help guide us in some fashion or another.

Honey, I will pasteurize, thin to wort gravity and add to secondary-for flavor. I know many among us have turned their noses to the use of honey in this recipe but my thinking leans toward complementing the potential "spicy"/"peppery" of the rye and yeast. Could be wrong...

Having never used the selected yeast I know very little about it nor what style it may produce. Wondering what types of beers have those here who used it produced?

This post has been edited by sdeweese: Mar 28 2008, 10:30 AM
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ewanzel
post Mar 28 2008, 11:35 AM
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QUOTE(sdeweese @ Mar 28 2008, 10:29 AM) *
Having never used the selected yeast I know very little about it nor what style it may produce. Wondering what types of beers have those here who used it produced?


I've used it in a spiced saison-ish thing and a dubbel. Takes a couple more weeks of conditioning to mellow and even out a bit.
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