Tun efficiency, looking for tips Options

[Thorhale]

I am curious how i can guage my efficience and if its poor, improve it.

[Fletch]

Mash efficiency is more a matter of technique than equipment. I've hit mid 80's with a very simple slotted copper pipe manifold in a rectangular cooler tun that cost next to nothing.

[MtnBrewer]

I have to disagree with Fletch here. Equipment can play a major role in efficiency.

The OP asked a two-part question.

1. How to measure efficiency - You take a gravity and volume reading before you boil to find out the gravity points extracted from the malt. Then you compare that to the theoretical gravity points you could have extracted. Efficiency is the ratio of the two. Eff = G_actual / G_theoretical.
2. How to improve efficiency - This depends on what your efficiency is, your equipment and your process. It's impossible to say how to improve it without knowing what your current process is.

[siouxbrewer]

It may sound like an obvious tip but make sure your MT is level. Doesn't matter what type of manifold/false bottom setup you use, if it isn't level you'll get some channeling. I'm new to fly sparging and found out the hard way. A couple shims could add up to a couple points on your efficiency.

[ChefLamont]

I think all of the above play a part (design of the equipment, technique in using said equipment, and brewing technique). However, I also think that, to a point, the most dependent factor is the crush of the grain going in. Of course "the crush" has many factors itself beyond the mill gap setting, but for all else being pretty much the same, I think gapping down your mill can improve things almost immediately.

If you are not crushing your own (letting the LHBS do it), you can get some lower efficiencies and/or inconsistency in efficiency. I would start crushing your own to get that under control.

Realistically, efficiency is a balance of all these things that produces the overall final efficiency, but I would start looking at the crush and work forward in the process from there.

My $0.02

[Denny]

Sure, equipment can play a big role in efficiency, but that doesn't mean you can't get great efficiency with simple equipment. Toay, using my 8 year old 48 qt. cooler with toilet braid, I got 91% efficiency.

[yeastrancher]

Two tips that have helped with my struggle to increase my efficiency:

1) Measure you specific gravity a lot. When I started doing all grain, I was only taking one gravity reading right before I pitched my yeast. I often was missing my target gravity and having no idea where my system had gone wrong. During sessions with which I'm particularly concerned about improving efficiency, I measure the gravity of the first runnings (to check for complete starch conversion), the last runnings coming from the tun (to see how much sugar I'm leaving behind), pre-boil, near the end of the boil (in order to correct with malt extract), and, of course, after cooling the wort. By doing a lot of measurements, you can hopefully pin down and correct areas where your system has problems.

2) Measure volumes as accurately as possible. Minor discrepancies in liquid left in your mash tun and kettle as well as boil off will vastly alter your perceived efficiency. For example, fermenting 6 gallons instead of 5.5 will look like a "drop" in efficiency of around 8%.

[Mike E.]

Sure, equipment can play a big role in efficiency, but that doesn't mean you can't get great efficiency with simple equipment. Toay, using my 8 year old 48 qt. cooler with toilet braid, I got 91% efficiency.

Denny, what is the key to your high eff. % success? I've got a standard three tier converted keg setup I originally built for fly sparge that I've found works better as a batch sparge right, for my tastes. But I get 76% efficiency, rock solid. if I could creep that to 80%, I'd be tickled. It's just a number I want to achieve, for no particular reason. I just want it. I've run of slow, fast, I've crushed grains so small they choke! What do I need to do!

Mike

[dagomike]

Denny, what is the key to your high eff. % success? I've got a standard three tier converted keg setup I originally built for fly sparge that I've found works better as a batch sparge right, for my tastes. But I get 76% efficiency, rock solid. if I could creep that to 80%, I'd be tickled. It's just a number I want to achieve, for no particular reason. I just want it. I've run of slow, fast, I've crushed grains so small they choke! What do I need to do!

I think he already told you:

using my 8 year old 48 qt. cooler with toilet braid, I got 91% efficiency.

The more batches you have on a system, the better you get at using that system. If you're always changing things or doing things differently, it's hard to zero in your techniques.

Now, with that said, there's absolutely nothing wrong with 76%. In terms of returns on time, money, and effort, efficiency should be near the bottom of the list. It's not a competition for making sugar. It's simply not improving your beer. $0.02.

[BeerCowboy]

Crush in most cases is a big factor. A poor crush even in the best system/technique well still produce low efficiency.

In most cases if you new to allgrain you well be try to change to many things at one time. Get to know your equipment and get technique down. Make a calibrated measuring vessel to measure all your brewing water.

I've been brewing on the same system for +5 years. The only gravity reading i take is when it is going in the fermenter. Its funny how predictable the outcome is.

And the Denny braid is the shiznit.

[Denny]

Denny, what is the key to your high eff. % success? I've got a standard three tier converted keg setup I originally built for fly sparge that I've found works better as a batch sparge right, for my tastes. But I get 76% efficiency, rock solid. if I could creep that to 80%, I'd be tickled. It's just a number I want to achieve, for no particular reason. I just want it. I've run of slow, fast, I've crushed grains so small they choke! What do I need to do!

Mike

Like Mike says, knowing your system. In my case, I thinks it;s a combo of knowing the system well enough that I know how fine I can crush (VERY fine), and having great water that allows me to make the most of it. Hit 91% again yesterday.

[dagomike]

Hit 91% again yesterday.

Making for lost time, eh? Good to hear. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif)

[Denny]

Making for lost time, eh? Good to hear. (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/wink.gif)

Yep, missed 6 weeks of brewing and I've got to catch up! Wyeast sent me a bunch of 2450 that I'm dying to try, so I'll be brewing a Rye IPA next weekend.

[Thorhale]

Denny, what is the key to your high eff. % success? I've got a standard three tier converted keg setup I originally built for fly sparge that I've found works better as a batch sparge right, for my tastes. But I get 76% efficiency, rock solid. if I could creep that to 80%, I'd be tickled. It's just a number I want to achieve, for no particular reason. I just want it. I've run of slow, fast, I've crushed grains so small they choke! What do I need to do!

Mike

I have read recently that the water you use is most important for a good mash
particls in parts per million are as follows

CO3 or HCO3 25-50 lighter, less acidic beers
100-300 for use of dark malts, as they can raise acidity
Na 10-70
CL 1-100
SO4 25-50 light beers
30-70 dark beers
Ca near 100
MG 20-30


that said, can what sources do you all use for your water?

[Fletch]

Actually, the optimum water profile is dependent on the style being brewed. Many (most) of the world's great beers taste the way they do because of the local water chemistry. You might want to pick up "Designing Great Beers" by Ray Daniels, or at least search for articles on brewin water.

OTOH, if you have tap water that tastes good, you can usually brew with it, though it's usually a good idea to filter it to remove the chlorine or chloramine added by the utility.