Cloning beers, is that really what youre after? Options

[Yeasty Boy]

I see lots of clone requests in the recipe forum. Not to come down too hard on people - I have a number of commercial beer favorites and I understand the thought (I think) - but do you really want to try and copy someone else's work? It's rare that clones really come out indistinguishable from the real for one thing, but more importantly, wouldn't you much rather identify the "sorts" of things you like about that beer and make your very own beer that embodies those qualities in their own way? I really like NBB's Bier de Mars, e.g., but so much about it is simply the light and refreshing quality, the subtle spiciness and big Brett character. I don't need their recipe to get that. And their recipe would probably only get me as close to their beer as me making up what I thought their recipe was.
I'm all for knowing what you like in a beer, and if you can find a great commercial example that strikes a chord, that's a great starting point. But to really make, say, Samuel Smith's Nut Brown come out of a homebrew tap - although impressive from a certain point - is somewhat gimmicky compared to making an awesome brown that might throw a nod to SS, but is simply a great beer in its own right.
Am I wrong? Down with cloning!!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/devil.gif)

[cavman]

I see lots of clone requests in the recipe forum. Not to come down too hard on people - I have a number of commercial beer favorites and I understand the thought (I think) - but do you really want to try and copy someone else's work? It's rare that clones really come out indistinguishable from the real for one thing, but more importantly, wouldn't you much rather identify the "sorts" of things you like about that beer and make your very own beer that embodies those qualities in their own way? I really like NBB's Bier de Mars, e.g., but so much about it is simply the light and refreshing quality, the subtle spiciness and big Brett character. I don't need their recipe to get that. And their recipe would probably only get me as close to their beer as me making up what I thought their recipe was.
I'm all for knowing what you like in a beer, and if you can find a great commercial example that strikes a chord, that's a great starting point. But to really make, say, Samuel Smith's Nut Brown come out of a homebrew tap - although impressive from a certain point - is somewhat gimmicky compared to making an awesome brown that might throw a nod to SS, but is simply a great beer in its own right.
Am I wrong? Down with cloning!!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/devil.gif)

To each his own, although myself I don't make clones(actually I never have made a single one). I guess it works for some, to me clones are good to get ideas on the style you are trying to brew. The closest I came was a Bluebird Bitter clone I got from the Flacons' website, and added an american twist by using Amarillo for aroma.

[jsw513]

I did a clone as my second batch (i'm only on my third). I want to make good tasting beer, that is all. Eventually I'd like to be able to create my own recipes, however at this moment in time, I don't fully understand what does what, ya dig?

[DoDaMan]

Still learning the ins-and-outs of what is doing what, so for the time being I have to stick to other people recipes. ( or clones )

I am looking to make my own recipe in the VERY near future.

If it wasnt for the other recipes, half of us probably wouldnt be home brewing!!

[mrmyrcene]

You can make up your own flavor or flavor combination pops into your head and you run with it to make your own recipe, resulting in plenty of culinary originality; you drink an awesome beer, use it as a starting point for that aforementioned flavor/flavor combination, resulting in less originality; you take a beer and try and clone it dead-on, resulting in no originality.
It makes sense to hold to the whole originality thing, I guess so that when you do come up with a gem, you have 1) an awesome beer, 2) an awesome beer from your own recipe. But really, if you're a good brewer, this shouldn't be an issue, because after a point, you'd think you can pretty much rely on your ability to come up with a good one-off that doesn't require too much tweaking (assuming your not venturing into experiments). Once your at this point, cloning beers is simply honing your skills, a real test of your ingredient and technique knowledge, you know?

This post has been edited by mrmyrcene: Mar 31 2008, 06:56 PM

[sporkd2]

What about people that are new to brewing? I got into brewing having no friends of greenboard to give me advice. I know what certain beers taste like so when I was trying to learn the brewing process I brewed clones to tweak my system.

I think for most people it is like having a variable and control. You know what something should taste like, lets see how close I can get through my brewing setup / knowledge.

After I had my brewing process nailed down I started doing things a bit more out of the ordinary because I knew what the steps were to making beer.

Just my .02

[SoCalBeerGut]

+1, when i started brewing making a clone and then comparing it side by side with the commercial was a very good way to figure out the flaws that were in my own brewing process. Its also fun to try and tweak a commercial recipe and make improvements.

What about people that are new to brewing? I got into brewing having no friends of greenboard to give me advice. I know what certain beers taste like so when I was trying to learn the brewing process I brewed clones to tweak my system.

I think for most people it is like having a variable and control. You know what something should taste like, lets see how close I can get through my brewing setup / knowledge.

After I had my brewing process nailed down I started doing things a bit more out of the ordinary because I knew what the steps were to making beer.

Just my .02

[CortezTheKiller]

I tried cloning a few beers when I first started - not that I got very close

I think it was important for a reference point for comparison

Nowadays I pretty much make up my own recipe based on what I've got on hand / based on style

I will look at other's clone recipes for inspiration/interest sake but I always find that what I end up putting down is not like the original recipe I look at

Seems pretty hard to make a bad beer when AG'ing - I usually find my beer more interesting than the commercial equivalent style

I suppose once one is confident about formulating recipes the sky's the limit

Cheers

[awall]

i've been brewing for a year, about 12 batches under my belt. some have been clones, some have been all original, some have been things i've seen and tweaked a little. i can't imagine having started and just tried making my own recipes from the get go. so far, the clones and tweaked recipes are the best beers i've done. my own are improving, but clones help me hone my skill sbecause i can better judge if what i brewed hit close to the target or not. clones also are teaching me a lot about how to design beers (yes, i read books too). so while i wouldn't want to do all clones for the rest of my brewing days, they have value for lots of us.

[awall]

I see lots of clone requests in the recipe forum. Not to come down too hard on people - I have a number of commercial beer favorites and I understand the thought (I think) - but do you really want to try and copy someone else's work? It's rare that clones really come out indistinguishable from the real for one thing, but more importantly, wouldn't you much rather identify the "sorts" of things you like about that beer and make your very own beer that embodies those qualities in their own way? I really like NBB's Bier de Mars, e.g., but so much about it is simply the light and refreshing quality, the subtle spiciness and big Brett character. I don't need their recipe to get that. And their recipe would probably only get me as close to their beer as me making up what I thought their recipe was.
I'm all for knowing what you like in a beer, and if you can find a great commercial example that strikes a chord, that's a great starting point. But to really make, say, Samuel Smith's Nut Brown come out of a homebrew tap - although impressive from a certain point - is somewhat gimmicky compared to making an awesome brown that might throw a nod to SS, but is simply a great beer in its own right.
Am I wrong? Down with cloning!!!
(IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/devil.gif)

haha, funny considering i just saw you're recipe suggestion on the dale's pale ale clone thread (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/tongue.gif)

[azmtnbiker]

I still like to try and clone a few beers. The one I clone the most is the SN Celebration ale just because it is only around a couple of months a year. My clones come close but they always have a personal touch to them. It is a good reference point.

[dagomike]

Brewing a commercial beer is validation. And why not brew your favorite beer at home? On the other hand, why brew something you can buy?

[Blizzbrews]

I agree with some of the previous posters that brewing a clone, especially as a new brewer is an excellent way to learn how a recipe will, for the most part, give you an expected outcome (if I make a beer with x malts, x hops, x yeast with x mash temps, etc., it should taste like Sam Smiths Nut Brown). Once you become a more experienced brewer, coming up with your own clone recipe for a commercial recipe is good way to test your skills. It may be nothing like Sam Smith's recipe, but if it tastes like it, you were successful.

When brewing other peoples' recipes, I like to brew them as written at least the first time, because I want to see what the original brewer was trying to accomplish. I'll tweak it from there if I want. The community recipes are a good example. I'll brew them the first time right from the thread, to see what the group effort came up with.

My 2 cents.

[Rez]

It's just as acceptable to clone a beer as it is to make up your own recipe in my book. You can give the same exact recipe and same exact ingredients to 5 different brewers and in the end, you'll have 5 different beers. If you clone it exactly, then good on you for being able to exactly duplicate what the original is. I get annoyed with brewers who tend to 'look down' on the way others do things because it's not what they personally do.

I'd rather drink an awesome clone than a lousy home made recipe.

Actually let me say it like this - IF IT'S GOOD, AND IT'S HOMEBREW, THEN THAT'S ALL THAT MATTERS!

[Rez]

Brewing a commercial beer is validation. And why not brew your favorite beer at home? On the other hand, why brew something you can buy?

Because it's a lot cheaper to brew craft beer than it is to buy - at least for me it is.