Big Brewing Barrel - Advice needed!, How do I make 50 gallons of beer? Options

[KSNZ]

Hi all,
I've just got my hands on a very large brewing barrel....
My house-mate has just got a 210 litre (55 gallon) container so he can move the water from a salt water fish tank he's just bought.
Turns out the seller works for a brewery, and the container is a plastic rum barrel!

So guess what I want to use it for when the fish tank has been moved..... this should be fun.

I've only brewed a couple of batches so far, so this is just a bit out of my depth!
I'd love some advice on how to go about doing this, if anyone can help.

First off, it will be reasonably expensive to use brew kits, so i'll have to try making beer from scratch! Would be good to get it right first time of course.
There needs to be an air-space in the top of the fermenter? What percentage of the barrel should the air space be?
Will a little airlock be enough for all that beer, or is there some other way?
When it comes to bottling I assume I can just siphon out into a bottling bucket several times until it's empty?

Sounds like fun eh!
There's a big party on the horizon....

[mach5]

Well, I wouldn't want to ferment a beer in a container that recently contained fish-water. However, having said that, you will need a large boil container too, obviously something metal. Or, you can do several small extract batches and keep adding them to the larger container. Boil, cool, repeat.

Once you get over those hurdles...you can buy extract in bulk and do an all extract brew. Much more expensive than all grain, but if you get a third vessel to mash in, you can buy some bulk grain and a mill and go to town.

If you want some help on brewing large, batches...give Walt a PM.

http://www.lamabrewery.com/

[sidney porter]

I don't know much about rum production, but if it is a plastic barrel, you are not going to get any wood or rum flavors, which is what I would be looking for. If it is truely plastic I don't see the appeal.

The only experience I have is with bourbon barrels. Which I believe was 53 gallons. You need all of you beer ready at the same time. My club brewed 75 gallons, and independently fermented, we tasted the samples and filled the barrel, the barrel will lose volume over time thru wood absorbsion and the angel share so we had back up beer to top off. We left it in the barrel for about 5 months. Transferred to kegs, carbed and then bottled with CPF.

As far as the head space air lock etc. Normally the barrel is for aging not fermenting. You want minimum head space so the barrel doesn't dry out the air lock should be fine for aging. The beer will benefit from temp changes allowing the wood to expand and contract absorbing and releasing beer from the wood. We built a rack on casters that allowed us to move the barrel from a walk in at 38 degrees to a room that was in the low 70's. But I don't think we ever actually moved it (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/blush.gif) . If you do this the air lock could such in water during the temp drop.

If it was wood I think that it would be hard to sanitize after having fish water in it.

This post has been edited by sidney porter: May 29 2008, 07:54 AM

[strangebrewer]

210 liter barrel... good on ya. First off I wouldn't ferment in such a large vessel because cleaning it out after a primary fermentation would be a PAIN. I'd ferment a bunch of smaller batches and use the big vessel for secondary. Just make five 10 gallon batches and after each one completes primary siphon it into the big barrel. Just remember to put that barrel where you plan to keep it because you won't be moving it when it's full!

For brewing on that scale and you don't have a whole lot of gear then I'd try and get in with one of the local breweries of which I recall there being quite a few in Aukland. See if you can talk to one of the head brewers and ask if they will sell you sacks of grain from their stock, and maybe help you out with the cleaning chemicals you'd need to clean out a big barrel. Also ask them about what yeast they use and ask if they'll give you some yeast out of their fermenter after they are done with a batch. Breweries don't re-use yeast as much as it is capable of being re-used so they'll usually more than happily give you fresh yeast if you show up on the right day with a sanitized container.

I'm just thinking that unless you plan to make a habit of making really big batches then you'll be investing a lot of money in gear you won't use that often so the more you can borrow the better. Brewing that much will both be fun and a bit of work, I wouldn't jump into that thinking it'll be all fun. Also brew something good, 210 liters is a lot!

[kysmith]

Not to be a asshole but............... this idea is stupid for a lot of reasons.

1. The plastic container will have had fish tank water in it. News flash: Those fish are taking craps in that water. Further, a lot of funky stuff is in saltwater tanks. Many hobbiest won't stick their hands in their aquarium without gloves because this can happen to you. Are you really going to want to drink beer out of a container that formerly housed something that can breed that?

2. You don't know how to brew yet and generally there is a bit of trial and error in this hobby before you start making good beer. No one is going to want to drink 50 gallons of your bad beer.

3. Try bottling 5 gallons and then tell me if you want to bottle 50 gallons. My guess is that you won't.

4. Should you somehow pull this off and actually throw a party with 50 gallons you brewed and bottled AND the beer somehow doesn't suck, the party will come to an abrupt end when people figure out that they're drinking 'Fish Poop Porter'.

5. Partygoers drunk on 'Fish Poop Porter' will most likely turn on you and form a lynch mob.

6. Drunken lynch mobs generally.............

Anyway, I'll stop there. I encourage you to try homebrewing but start a little smaller and do not ferment in your former fish tank, bathtub, former recycling bin, dog food container, toilet........

Instead, buy one of these and keep it really clean

[Denny]

Not to mention, how are you gonna control the fermentation temp of something that size?(IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/sorry.gif)

[mach5]

You could always line the barrel with a thick industrial trash bag to do the fish water transfer, that will remove the freak out value of the fact that there are fish pooping in your future fermenter. That would make clean-up a lot easier.

[jwhite751]

If this was April 1st I would say this is an April fools joke but on the chance that it is for real I think you are getting way ahead of yourself. If you have only brewed kits you probably dont have a clue about formulating recipes. Assuming you can even brew 50 gallons you need to have a recipe you have brewed more than once and have been able to duplicate,the knowledge on how to increase it to 50 gal., the equipment and the help to pull it off, and a lot of luck. My advice to you would be to clean the barrell and put it away for awhile and spend your time improving your brewing skills. That said, best of luck if you decide to go ahead and try it.

[ChefLamont]

I agree with all said.

The main thing is that you are talking about a big advancement that you arent quite ready for yet. I would say if you are stepping up to 50 gal batches, you need to be all grain. I would think the extract costs would eat you up. Also, if you want 50 gal and you are doing 5 gal batches, you need to make 10 consistent and uninfected batches to make up the 50. Only one needs to have some sort of infection issue and the whole barrel will be toast.

All that is not to turn you away completely. Just to say get some more experience. When you can brew consistently, predictably, and without infection over a good number of batches, then use that experience and wisdom to step up to the bigger batches.

denny's point on temp is very good too.

This post has been edited by ChefLamont: May 29 2008, 03:23 PM

[hullabrew2]

If this was April 1st I would say this is an April fools joke but on the chance that it is for real I think you are getting way ahead of yourself. If you have only brewed kits you probably dont have a clue about formulating recipes. Assuming you can even brew 50 gallons you need to have a recipe you have brewed more than once and have been able to duplicate,the knowledge on how to increase it to 50 gal., the equipment and the help to pull it off, and a lot of luck. My advice to you would be to clean the barrell and put it away for awhile and spend your time improving your brewing skills. That said, best of luck if you decide to go ahead and try it.

+1 You're getting WAY ahead of yourself to try to brew a 50 gal batch only a couple batches in. I'm not going to say that you're brewing "bad" or "crap" beer right now, but there is a big difference in brewing a 5 gallon extract kit and brewing a 50 gallon batch. A lot that goes into formulating and sizing up a recipe and I doubt that you've gained that knowledge yet. Do a few more batches at the level your at and get that process down, and make sure you understand what is going on. Then move on to full boil (I assume that you are doing partial boil). Then move to all grain, and possibly up to 10 gallons at that point (That's what I did). Honestly, very few people ever acquire equipment to do more than 10 or 15 gallons. Most of that reason is cost of equipment and storage space; however, many homebrew clubs DO buy large brew equipment. You could maybe join a club with a large brew set and rent the equipment time for a day.

[KSNZ]

Phew, lovin all the replies! thanks everyone

Firstly, i'm definitely trying to punch above my weight... but thats part of the fun!!

I fully agree that it will be a lot of work. But work=fun at this stage of the hobby, you all remember when it wasn't a chore!
I'm happy to stick with off-the-shelf brew kits for this one, it's worth the expense by the sounds of it. Should only be NZ$100, around US$78
Spent that amount in a bar last week (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/shock.gif)

Honestly, is it really impossible to sanitise a container after salt water fish tank water has been in it for 2 hours?
I'd be suprised....
There must be a way.

The party will be my 30th, I have a reputation for overdoing my hobbies, please indulge me, he he

Temperature is not really an issue - the perfectionists among you will probably cringe, but the concrete room I have dedicated to home brew will not vary from between 7 to 16 deg C (45 - 61F) for the next few months. Colder if anything, definitely not hotter. It's winter here.
I have capillary thermostats, heat blankets, infra-red thermometers etc etc if it gets hectic (IMG:style_emoticons/brewboard/smile.gif) I'm an engineer
I'm confident I can keep it at 50F 55F, 60F no worries, or whatever you guys specify.
(it's a lager, my heathen mates won't drink it otherwise, so it'll be fermented cold?)

I really do hear those of you who are recommending me to get more experience, I definitely know theres a risk involved.

Lets keep talking about this, I don't mind if you're talking me into it or out of it!

Kit

[MixnMatchBrew]

Don't listen to the nay sayers. It will not be easy and you might make a big batch of hooch beer, but it will still be your beer and your experience, so if you learn anything by it and have fun, then thats mostly the reason we brew anyway.

[sidney porter]

as far as the consistency aspect, i don't think it is as big as deal as some are making it out to be. As long as the beers are not infected.

We I have participated in the barrel projects we all brewed the same style and receipe but there were differences in the beers when tasted side by side. The beers that got rejected were because of problems not slight variations in the taste

[blktre]

Pitch real freak'in big, aerate well. Even a large pitch at your cold temps can and will shut down most ale strains. I suggest pitching around 70*F then letting the cold room take her down to the low to mid 60's and hope the heat of fermentation will keep it there. There are other ways to raise temps in fermenters when they get to cold, but from the sounds of it, you don't have the necessary equipment to do that being you have only brewed a few batches. Heating pads and temp controllers set on "Heat" helps out.

As far as brew day goes, you better do some serious research on mashing (temps), sparging, hop utilization (especially on split boils). Not sure how big your kettles, MT are, but you may find it better to get some friends over and everybody brews a 10g batch and tosses it in your 55g fermenter. Good luck.....oh, better get a huge pitch from a local brewery, or be prepared to prop yeast for a few weeks to get your proper pitch rate....

[kysmith]

Boy...... you're a good sport.

Well, you will need a HUGE starter, maybe even brew a beer and use the slury from that for the big beer. If you want to over-do it and don't mind working your arse you could just brew 5 ten gallon batches over the course of a marathon brewing session and put them all in this fermenter. Industrial breweries do this to an extent. For example if they have a 50 barrel fermenter and a 10 barrel system they will sometimes brew 10 barrels of the exact same beer 5 times and each time put it in the same fermenter. They complete this all in the better part of a day so it's OK that the beer isn't finished all at once (numbers are not based on anything, just a means to illustrate the concept).