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> St. Bernardus Clone Recipe
Krispen
post Aug 15 2008, 05:35 PM
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I plan on brewing an all grain clone of a St. Bernardus 12 (now my favorite Belgian beer, next to Rochefort 10, Westy 12, etc).

This is what I know so far on the actual beer from the brewery:

OG: 1.090
IBU: 22
Malts: Pilsner (Beligum) and Black/Dark (Belgium)
Adjuncts: Beet sugar, dark caramel syrup (should be 20% of all fermentables)
Hops: Target, Saaz
Yeast: St. Bernardus yeast, but probably original Westvletren

This is my rough draft recipe.

10 lbs Pilsner (Belgium)
2 lbs Black/Dark (Beligum)

1 lbs Dark Belgian Candi syrup (2 min)
1.5 lbs Belgian Amber Rock Candi (10 min)

.5 oz Target hops (60 min)
.5 oz Saaz hops (15 min)
.25 oz Saaz hops (2 min)

2.75 liter starter of yeast from S. Bernardus 12 750 ml bottle.

Thoughts? Modifications?

Kris
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Yeasty Boy
post Aug 15 2008, 06:29 PM
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I wouldn't do more than 6oz debittered black, less if you can get the color you need from the cyrup. It'll get stouty real quick with that much in there. But some amount, maybe 1-2 oz even, will help with stability as it ages.
Also, pick a smaller St B beer to prop from. That stuff gets enough abuse from temp swings in transit; you don't need to be giving it alcohol poisoning the whole way as well!!!
Also, pitch at 70 and hoold for the lag phase, maybe 12-24 hr after fermentation even, then freak out and get up into the low 80's.
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Sqhead
post Aug 16 2008, 08:56 AM
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There is a recipe for this beer in this month's (Sept.) issue of BYO.
Sqhead
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Thirsty
post Aug 16 2008, 11:58 AM
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Also make sure the yeast dregs are not from a bottling yeast, not sure about st bernardus, but many use a different yeast altogether at bottling.
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Krispen
post Aug 17 2008, 12:57 PM
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QUOTE(Yeasty Boy @ Aug 15 2008, 05:29 PM) *
I wouldn't do more than 6oz debittered black, less if you can get the color you need from the cyrup. It'll get stouty real quick with that much in there. But some amount, maybe 1-2 oz even, will help with stability as it ages.
Also, pick a smaller St B beer to prop from. That stuff gets enough abuse from temp swings in transit; you don't need to be giving it alcohol poisoning the whole way as well!!!
Also, pitch at 70 and hoold for the lag phase, maybe 12-24 hr after fermentation even, then freak out and get up into the low 80's.


Excellent. Thanks for the tips. Are you suggesting using like the St. Berni 6 for a starter vs. the 12? I have a one of the special edition 750ml 12s in my cellar now, which I was hoping to use. On the flip side, the rumor is that they use Westmalle yeast, as does St. Sixtis for Westy 12. Perhaps I should use a few Westmalle doubles for my starter? Of course, as noted below, all this is hinding on them using their primary yeast for bottle fermentation, vs. some other yeast. My inclination is that they are using their primary yeast in the bottle, and not some other strain.

Kris

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Krispen
post Aug 17 2008, 02:10 PM
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QUOTE(Sqhead @ Aug 16 2008, 07:56 AM) *
There is a recipe for this beer in this month's (Sept.) issue of BYO.
Sqhead


I don't get that mag. Would you mind jotting the basic recipe down in text format here? Is it the St. Bernardus 12?

Kris



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Yeasty Boy
post Aug 17 2008, 08:05 PM
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Don't think they use Westmalle yeast. Think they used to, but IIRC it is now their own and they maintain it themselves. (Could be dead wrong. I remember four abbeys using it, themselves, Westy, Achell, don't recall the other.) I wouldn't hesitate to use WLP530 however (westmalle); it would make a fine example of style. Mind you though, I've never quite gotten the "quest for the perfect clone" thing.
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Krispen
post Aug 18 2008, 08:42 AM
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QUOTE(Yeasty Boy @ Aug 17 2008, 07:05 PM) *
Don't think they use Westmalle yeast. Think they used to, but IIRC it is now their own and they maintain it themselves. (Could be dead wrong. I remember four abbeys using it, themselves, Westy, Achell, don't recall the other.) I wouldn't hesitate to use WLP530 however (westmalle); it would make a fine example of style. Mind you though, I've never quite gotten the "quest for the perfect clone" thing.


Yes, I am thinking of abandoning the clone approach. The only clone I have made that tasted close to the original was a Mac and Jacks African Amber...quite tasty. But for these huge Belgians that have been evolving for many years, if not hundreds, its like trying to clone a human being with a sack of bones, flesh, skin, and protoplasm....you might get the general form right, but something will always be "not quite right". They are not really clones in the strict sense of the word, but attempted simulations. I would like to see what BYO has down as the St. Berni 12 clone recipe, however. I'll ask someone in my local brew club to bring me a copy. I have a Chimay Blue clone in the bottle right now that should be ready to taste in about 3 weeks.

Now, on to a different recipe...1.080 strong beligian ale, slightly more hoppy than a standard belgian, and with some cherry juice in the secondary for a hint of flavor. We'll see.

Kris

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Krispen
post Aug 23 2008, 04:17 PM
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Here is the recipe, sent to me by someone in my local brew club who has BYO.

Interesting comment below: "Although probably not authentic, I find that using the debittered black malt will give you a much smoother product". Brew Like a Monk shows the brewery as using black malt in the recipe "for aging stability". The book also doesn't reference Munich malt, aromatic, or carafa, and the hops below are not what they are reported as using in the brewery. So, I'm not sure how close this BYO recipe will actually get to the actual beer. It may be one of those deals where someone has "simulated" the beer taste with an alternative set of ingredients, vs. trying reverse engineer the recipe and build it back up. The gravity is all wrong too. I would be inclinded to begin with what Brew Like a Monk reports from the brewery, and then start tweaking it for taste, body, color, etc.

Kris

St. Bernardus 12

OG=1.103
FG.=1.017
IBU=15
SRM=37
ABV.=11%

10#'s Pilsener malt
3.0 #'s Munich malt
1.0 #'s aromatic malt
0.5 #'s Carafa Special III malt
3.0 #'s Belgian candi syrup (Dark 2) (15 min)
3.5 AAU Wye Challenger hops
(60 min) (0.50 oz. 7% alpha acids)
1.3 AAU Styrian Goldings (20 min)
(0.25 oz. of 5% alpha acid)
Wyeast 3787 (Trappist High Gravity) yeast

Step by Step:
Mash with a 15 minute rest at 135 deg.F, a 35 minute rest at 145 deg F, and a 25 minute rest at 165 deg F, a 5 minutes at 172 deg F. Boil wort for 60 minutes, adding hops and sugars at times indicated in the ingredient list. Cool wort and aerate. Pitch yeast at 70 deg. F. Let fermentation temperature rise to around 83 deg F. Rack beer to secondary and condition for six to eight weeks at 50 deg. F. Carbonate to 3.0 - 3.5 volumes of CO2.

Note: This particular recipe is for their 60th anniversary edition, which is closer to their original recipe. Although probably not authentic, I find that using the debittered black malt will give you a much smoother product. Also, it's reported that St. Bernadus uses a different bottling strain than the fermentation strain so I find that using Westmalle's yeast gives me as good as I can get.
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Jimmy James
post Aug 24 2008, 09:56 PM
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What I like about your first recipe is the simplicity of it. I think it would be relatively easy to use it as a jumping off point if you felt it was close but not quite there. The BYO recipe looks like a WAGNER to me. I haven't had an Abt 12 in a year or so, but I don't remember much hop aroma - I recall it being more yeasty/bready but that could be just bad recollection. Still, I tend to do a single 60 min hop addition for my Belgians across the board, or at least the first couple times I use any given yeast strain until I feel I can distinguish the hop flavors and aroma from those imparted by the yeast. With this particular brew I might shoot more for 30 to 35 IBU with a single 60-min hop addition, I think WLP530 is the Westmalle strain and would be able to handle that kind of OG you're shooting for.
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nfo
post Aug 25 2008, 09:27 AM
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I'm thinking of doing something like this as the base beer for my winter seasonal:
http://www.brewboard.com/index.php?showtopic=98035

After a bit of reading (read the Trappist and brewing sections of BLAM), I think maybe I'll try to use Belgian candi syrup. I'll try to get Dark 2, as in the second recipe you posted. I assume that replaces the Special B (or other caramel malts), since they provide some of the same flavors.

I think my OG will be about 1.077, and I'll keep the IBUs around 22 with just the 60 min addition (I'll be spicing mine).

Since I'm using Wyeast 1214, will I end up with something more like your Chimay Blue? Was your recipe for that any different?
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anti
post Jul 10 2009, 12:03 AM
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Did you end up brewing this Krispen?
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ssf
post Oct 6 2009, 11:49 AM
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I brewed an extract batch of this beer (mostly) following the BYO clone recipe, and I finally tapped the keg after about a year in secondary in the keg. you can check out pics of my results and some tasting notes at the link HERE
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